Thursday, 26 April 2007

Titan! Fucking Titan!

So I waited a few days to see if Matt was going to post about this topic since the game mentioned above is his stated favorite. I cannot wait any longer and I feel it is safe to say Matt had his chance.


Company that is doing a kick ass So unless you life in a news proof bubble or have been having an all out orgy with 10 incredibly hot chicks for the last few days you have probably heard that Valley Games, that little Canadian reprint of Hannibal, is now going to reprint Titan. (And Republic of Rome but more on that later)

True to form, I have just completed making 2 copies of this game for myself and my Little bro "Bobby Tweaks". I seem to have this innate ability to cause the reprint of long out of print games simply by either purchasing them or by making a home made copy. (Successors and Hannibal were announced hours after doing so) That's no big deal as my homemade version, complete with larger Masterboard, will certainly get used for the next 6 months until the reprint is available and there is always a small chance the new version will suck.

Anyway, I am fired up about the reprint for a number of reasons. First there is the fact that this game has caught on like wildfire with the group. We have played it 3 times in the past week and interest in learning the game (Read getting good at it) is high. Only a few nay-sayers have complained and that's a guy who complains about everything so we just ignore him. I am already looking at adjusting my schedule for the WBC to fit a schooling in Titan in, as are a few others in the group. So having a fresh version available will only help prolong the interest in this great game.

In addition to my own game groups interest in Titan, a reprint will increase general interest int he game. A game that is about as Ameritrash and they come. I have already heard some complaints on the geek about how Titan is old school with roll and move and the dreaded player elimination. This is total bullshit! Titan is a classic game, where the rolling to move (and the option not to) is part of what separates good players from those who bitch that they can't roll that 4 they need. The player elimination mean that you have to pay attention! You can just stroll around with your Titan stack and attack a random stack. You need to watch what people recruit, try and know where their Titan is and plan out your strikes carefully. Add to this the tactical battles where a skilled player may out beat out a stronger army and you have a game that is won most of the time by better play.

So lets all give a big cheer to Valley Games, if they come through with the products they have announced they will be doing more of the hobby than anyone else by making some fine, but hard to come by games obtainable by a new set of gamers.

-M

44 comments:

MWChapel said...

Well so far Valley has promised a whole lot but has only delivered Die Macher, which is great but the quality was lacking. And now they are promising a reprint of DM with upgraded components as well. I'll be skeptical until they actually print another one of the 5 games they announced.

And Titan? Shoot everyone I know who would actually be willing to play Titan(including me) already owns a copy.

not billy sparkles said...

I'm looking forward to seeing what this reprint is made of. I've been wanting to pick up Titan for a while now-- I just can't justify the 100$ to 150$ (min.) it will cost me to do so.

Where the fuck did they get the $$$ to snake FFG on this one!?

Billy Z.

Michael Barnes said...

Yes, Valley Games is definitely a cause worth celebrating...and let's all be thankful they ignored all the public pleas for reprints of 15-20 year old, marginal-at-best Euros of which they'd be lucky to sell 200 copies. "I really wish they'd reprint HOTEL LIFE..." Why not just wish they'd throw their money away and go out of business?

TITAN is definitely a smart choice both economically and from the "fan" perspective but even though I like the game it's not as exciting to me as the reprints of HANNIBAL or REPUBLIC OF ROME (maybe because I've never played either of those)...it's a shame they're going to redo all the art because the art is part of the flavor of TITAN as far as I'm concerned. I do hope they'll leave the game "as is" but maybe add some optional rules to make the tactical battles a little more interesting- I've always felt they were a little dull, believe it or not. I love the board movement, I love the mustering system, I love the way the game plays...not trying to commit heresy here, people.

But still- how great is it that a near-30 year old game with roll-and-move mechanics, player elimination, a 1-12 hour play time, and promises of a monster slug-a-thon is coming back into print?

Hopefully folks will try the game for themselves and see how all the negativity and Eurogame-inspired "backlash" against games like TITAN is a bunch of bullshit...it's really great that Valley Games understands the importance of keeping these classic games available for new generations of gamers. _That_ is a significant contribution to the hobby.

Julian said...

I think the real story here is that we have a way of getting games back into print. Malloc, I have a few requests: Can you make your own copies of Dune and Up Front, please.

Matt Thrower said...

not trying to commit heresy here, people.

HERESY!!!

I didn't post about this because:
a) Like mwchapel, I took the announcement with a pinch of salt and
b) Titan is so good it speaks for itself.

Jack Hill said...

I remember Hannibal as just a wee bit clunky.

Republic of Rome IS great. Except for the rulebook. Barnes seems to worship Don Greenwood, but would be quickly cured of that if he ever was forced to read the Down with the King rules.

It suffers from death by FARC. (FARC in this case meaning Friendly Allied Royal Character. They get talked about a lot in those rules. )

robartin said...

I never have been able to figure out Titan. Maybe I should just stick to games about penguins instead.

Michael Barnes said...

Don Greenwood is like that giant, gun dispensing head in ZARDOZ. Except that he dispense rules. Worship? Oh no...amused by, definitely though.

Apparently the original Courtney Allen build of UP FRONT was a sleek, fairly simple card game...then Don Greenwood got a hold of it and applied his special brand of nightmare logic and splitting/combining rules into myriad webs of wordage and poof! Easy card game made opaque and inaccessible to all but the most devoted approachers.

Yeah, Malloc- since your finger is on the cosmic trigger, why don't you whip up a copy of DUNE and UP FRONT for us...if you could also do TALES OF THE ARABIAN NIGHTS, DRAGON PASS, SPACE HULK, FULL METAL PLANETE and maybe COSMIC ENCOUNTER we'd appreciate it, thanks.

Swabbleflange said...

Exciting news. However, the pedant in me can't get over the stray sentence in the second paragraph.

Roy Flaherty said...

I LIFE IN NEW PROOF BUBBLE WHAT IS GOIN ON, CAPTAIN?

Anonymous said...

Sometimes folks start a post I'm also curious how they snagged these rights one way but finish it another way.

I heard the original designer just dropped out of life for a decade or so. I guess someone visited him at the commune or whatever and got him to sign his name with bean ink or whatever vegans use. (I only sign with octopus, myself.)

Jack Hill said...

A slightly reworked Space Hulk might top my list. I like some of the things in both 1st and 2nd edition. In some ways Doom is very close, except far slower, and without bullets.

Simply even thinking about the idea of conserving ammo should ban the game from any AT list.

As to ZARDOZ references. Pray we never see Don Greenwood in a wedding dress.

neonpeon said...

Sweet. I've heard so much about the game so I just started playing the computer version. Don't know what I'm doing yet but from what I hear it should be up my alley.

SenorOcho said...

Hey, what about Civilization, since we're tossing out suggestions? :)

Julian said...

I'll second Civilization and Space Hulk. Looks like Malloc has his work cut out for him.

Does Titan play well with two? Because realistically that is the main way it would get played at my house.

Mr Skeletor said...

2 should work wonderfully. I have only ever played it with 3 and probably would not play it with any more.
Great news, but yeah I wont be pre-ordering 'till i see the final product.

Malloc said...

Titan plays very well with 2. In fact there is a special 2 player tourney at the WBC for Titan.

-M

philoiz said...

And Titan? Shoot everyone I know who would actually be willing to play Titan(including me) already owns a copy.

Well, count me as 1. I got to play Titan for the first and only time 3 years ago with a friend that owned a copy and has since moved away.

I am 100% on-board and totally enthused about this announcement and am praying to the player-elimination gods that Valley Games makes this see the light of day for real.

philoiz said...

And now my roommate tells me that a buddy from his work wants to have people over on Sunday to play Titan...minutes after I post. Wow, that was weird.

the red phantom said...

LOVE Titan. Currently works best as two-player. Might up it to four if all concerned were warned and brought books. And I'm glad FFG didn't tie up their production line with this. It is quintessentially AT, but there's no call for plastic in the entire game. Sometimes--sometimes--less is more.

Anonymous said...

and let's all be thankful they ignored all the public pleas for reprints of 15-20 year old,

I have to say I don't get this at all. The cries from the "Eurogame" community, whatever that is, or at least from the community at BGG have been exactly for these games - Die Macher, Hannibal (the biggest), Republic, Titan, and I'm seeing Big City (which seems out of place) and Liberte, too. What are you saying?

Gary Sax said...

Count me in as being way more interested in Republic of Rome than Titan; but I still think it's great that Titan is being reprinted. I don't personally like Diplomacy as for me there isn't enough game in there, it's all pure personality conflict (which I'm sure some people really dig). The thought of a game with a big portion of forced cooperation along with the backstabbing and conflict and more actual game parts to it (money, armies, family management, etc) than Diplomacy sounds super cool. I'll probably preorder it, especially if it plays pretty well on the internets which is what I'm hearing--there's no way I could get a ftf game going with anyone I game with (we pretty much just play Euros together).

Also, I don't get the skepticism about Valley Games. Die Macher was printed and sent out. It wasn't a perfect print (the icons *are* a little small) but everything else is great and the components besides that seem very solid to me. I don't see how people are talking about it not happening or being printed--is there not a Die Macher box in my house? If they were taking the money and running or something wouldn't that have already happened with Die Macher?

Mr Skeletor said...

The thought of a game with a big portion of forced cooperation along with the backstabbing and conflict and more actual game parts to it (money, armies, family management, etc) than Diplomacy sounds super cool.

Isn't that a Game of thrones?

Albert said...

"and let's all be thankful they ignored all the public pleas for reprints of 15-20 year old, marginal-at-best Euros of which they'd be lucky to sell 200 copies"
Come on... you just call ameritrash any game you fancy. I could not care less for Titan (americrap for sure), but I think there have been many "public pleas" for a Hannibal reprint; in fact, I cannot think of a more "pleaded for a reprint" game.
Hannibal is not comparable to Titan by any stretch of imagination.

Ken Bradford said...

Strawman said:

Come on... you just call ameritrash any game you fancy.


Oh yeah, man, I'm all the time calling Ra, a game I "fancy", as Ameritrash. Just cause I can. *giggle*


Any more idiotic generalizations you want to throw out there?

philoiz said...

Yes, I believe he also wanted to say:

"And all those who aren't Eurosnoots are ignorant fat hippies that think about nothing except when they're going to get their next payout from their pimp so they can buy their fix of heroin."

Thank you for your time. This has been a philoiz messaging service Contact us now for reasonable rates!

robartin said...

I don't personally like Diplomacy as for me there isn't enough game in there, it's all pure personality conflict (which I'm sure some people really dig).

Wow. Somebody has never really played Diplomacy. Negotiation is at best 50% of the game. The tactical and strategic aspects of Diplomacy compare very favorably to chess. There have been books written about strategy and tactics in Diplomacy...

Albert said...

Bully said:
"Any more idiotic generalizations you want to throw out there?"
Are you sure you know what "generalization" means? Apparently not, so keep your "idiotic" for yourself.
You being a bully is not a generalization, neither.

Raphaƫl said...

A lot of people here complained about how people on BGG are cry babies, not capable of understanding humor.
Reading Ken Bradford and philoiz comments, I see that many of you are just a bunch of guys with a different opinion, ready to mob on anyone who does not agree with you.
BGG had been an AT affair, you would have banned the EuroMichael Barnes exactly the same way.

Mr Skeletor said...

The euro fans were hardly crying for a reprint of Hannibal, it was the wargamers and ATers that were.
Or are you one of these jackasses that insists BGG belongs to the euro crowd?

Ken Bradford said...

No. Read it again.


He made a comment that we just lumped any game we liked as "AT". That was the foolish generalization.

Yes, I know what that word means. It generalized behavior. It said, "You like a game? You lump it into AT."


It was a harsh comment and was met equally harshly.


I am not "mobbing" him for liking whatever game he likes. I am "mobbing" him for making a foolish statement. BIG difference.

Ken Bradford said...

And albert, if I misread you and you weren't actually being as sarcastic as it sounded, then I offer you a sincere apology.

How about that?

Ken Bradford said...

One last thought (triple posts rule!):

I have been a mod on other websites. Yes, I have banned people in the past.

But.

It was ALWAYS someone who was bringing NOTHING to the conversation. Who only existed to agitate. Who was adding nothing worthwhile in terms of content or discussion.

If people were abrasive but had insights to offer, I let them pass, even if I got complaints on them.

If you look at Mike Barnes' user profile on BGG, I challenge you to say that he was adding nothing apropos in terms of content or discussion. The messenger may have been rough, but the message was valid.

StephenAvery said...

Ban Him! BAN HIM! For the love of God, Some one ban somebody!

mtlawson said...

Wow. Somebody has never really played Diplomacy. Negotiation is at best 50% of the game. The tactical and strategic aspects of Diplomacy compare very favorably to chess. There have been books written about strategy and tactics in Diplomacy...

Agreed.

Part of the reason why Survivor remains popular is the negotiation and backstabbing found in the show. I came into the room while my wife was watching (I don't watch, and use "Survivor time" as time to catch up on other things), and I pointed out to her that she should consider Diplomacy sometime since she likes Survivor so much. She wasn't so keen on making that direct a connection until later in the episode where people were trying to backstab each other right before the tribal council; my wife turned to me and said, "You know, you've got a point about Diplomacy. I ought to consider it."

Ken Bradford said...

And now, here's Poor Ol' Steve Avery to explain the rules about Banning to you.

Take it away, Steve!



I'll just be over here napping.


*teehee*

Shellhead said...

mtlawson,

You should have seen Survivor last night. The survival challenge was actually multi-player Battleship, more or less.

They had a 5x5 grid of squares, and each of the seven remaining Survivors secretly selected three adjacent squares, either diagonally or orthogonally. Players took turns naming squares, and every player who had chosen that square as one of their adjacent three took a hit. When all three of your squares are hit, you are out.

Btw, I am very relieved that this thread is about the boardgame Titan, and *not* about hot, sweaty Titan-on-Titan action. Whew!

Gary Sax said...

Having played 5-6 pretty cuthroat (do they happen any other way?) long turn high negotiation online diplomacy games, I would personally not say that 50% is tactics. About 25% is tactics--sure there are some standard openings, like chess, but many of the standard openings and discussions I've read about diplomacy are about standard alliances and negotiations (Turkish Russian alliance, the streamroller, for example) and the simple moves that go with them. That's what most of the ink spilled on diplomacy is about. In my opinion diplomacy does have tactical elements but they're relatively shallow and sometimes come right down to guessing. It's only when paired with the vast conspiracies, common alliances, things you're hearing on the wire that the tactical element of diplomacy seems to gain so much depth--"if what I'm hearing is true he'll support here and attack here; what move can I make to perfectly break that. But what if he's not doing that but this instead? Will my move stand up to other moves from my opponent?"

In my opinion the tactics in diplomacy are all about managing risk based on your probabilistic guesses of what your opponents moves are--trying to find that move that does well if your opponent does exactly what you think he will do and still performs fine if he does what you're not thinking about. I would say it has very little to do with the depth of the game system, which I don't think is terribly deep (that's not bad either; it just puts all the focus on the negotiation, as it should in a game called diplomacy). Personally, I wouldn't make a comparison with chess. In terms of stuff written about it, yes, there's a ton of it, but it's deceiving because most of the things that are written about it are about the potential negotiations and alliances.

Note that I'm not saying Diplomacy isn't strategic and tactical, it most certainly is intensely so, but in my humble opinion that is almost all because of the personality/alliance game on top of it, not the simple mechanics.

All of this being my humble opinion of course.

mtlawson said...

You should have seen Survivor last night. The survival challenge was actually multi-player Battleship, more or less.

Yes, I caught that part of it. I came in to see the second half of the challenge, and I was surprised to see one woman accidentally call out her own position. Brain farts like that will cost you in the long run.

I was thinking more along the lines of when the two guys were plotting how to use some information to backstab Yao-man, and they were being overheard by two of the women, who could then have used it to backstab those two guys instead. Very Machiavellian, and very Diplomacy-esque.

robartin said...

Having played 5-6 pretty cuthroat (do they happen any other way?) long turn high negotiation online diplomacy games, I would personally not say that 50% is tactics. About 25% is tactics--

Well rather than derail this thread by getting into a debate about Diplomacy here, I'll do an article about it and we can argue there. Suffice it to say, I couldn't disagree more. The tactical and strategic aspects of Diplomacy are quite deep.

Anonymous said...

There's often a promotion for new players as an incentive to start playing with a certain amount of time for free on offer, sign-up bonuses and other promotions.. [url=http://www.mulberryhandbagssale.co.uk]Mulberry Bags[/url] So, the future production of all the wells will be less than the initial production. [url=http://www.goosecoatsale.ca]canada goose chilliwack[/url] Ejgybwcei
[url=http://www.pandorajewelryvip.co.uk]pandora charm[/url] Fwsrahwof [url=http://www.officialcanadagooseparkae.com]canada goose coats[/url] vldhxrszy

Anonymous said...

Hi there, I found your web site by the use of Google even as looking for a related topic,
your web site came up, it seems to be great. I've bookmarked it in my google bookmarks.
Hi there, simply become aware of your weblog via Google, and found that it is really informative. I'm gonna be
careful for brussels. I'll be grateful if you happen to continue this in future. Lots of folks can be benefited from your writing. Cheers!
Here is my site ; Sams Quick Loans

Anonymous said...

Wonderful post but I was wanting to know if you could write a litte
more on this topic? I'd be very grateful if you could elaborate a little bit further. Many thanks!
My site: http://bibliotecadecartago.es

Anonymous said...

Great post. I was checking constantly this blog and I'm impressed! Extremely helpful information specially the last part :) I care for such info much. I was looking for this certain info for a long time. Thank you and best of luck.
My page :: buchhaltung-rechnungswesen.ch