Tuesday, 1 May 2007

Star Wars Heroscape? Dream on

As the world waits for this year's crop of Superhero films (Spidey 3, FF 2) the comic book fans among us are waiting on Marvel Heroscape to finally grace store shelves.

The idea is of course so obvious...Heroscape has been a tremendously successful product for Hasbro, bringing a level of AT Geekiness to the store shelves of Target and Wal-Mart, and managing to cross that "mass-market" barrier that so many games find difficult to cross.

Your mind begins to wonder at the possibilities of licensing this system...and it doesn't take long for the geeky mind to move to one of the biggest licensed properties in the world, Star Wars. It's a natural fit--packs of Star Wars heroes and villains would be flying off the shelves as fans gobbled up ten different versions of Luke, Han, and company.

The first thought is of course George Lucas' reluctance to allow his properties to intermingle with others, particularly in the same setting or framework. Lucas is something of a renowned control freak, so that is understandable. Of course, that idea flies right out the window when you consider that Hasbro made both Transformers and Marvel Heroes characters for use in the game Attacktix, even going so far as to package Star Wars and Transformers characters in the same pack!

Running out of options to stop
General Grievous, Shaak Ti was
forced to throw her best candy dish

So we're looking at a company that owns the rights to a system that lends itself well to expansion and licensed properties....the *same* company owning the rights to one of the biggest franchises in the world...and yet...as far as I can tell, there are no plans for a Star Wars Heroscape.

Why is that?

Let's take a short trip back in time to 2002, when Epic Duels was on the shelves. Most geek gamers know the story of that one; this was released during a time when most gamers (especially Ameritrash gamers) knew nothing about BGG and had no online resource for telling if a game was any good or not. I saw Epic Duels on the shelves many times but assumed it was bad, licensed drek--let's face it, Star Wars up until that time had a pretty poor reputation in terms of licensed boardgames and videogames (it was this same assumption that had hampered sales of AH's stellar Star Wars: The Queen's Gambit a few years before).

Epic Duels became a word-of-mouth phenomenon, but not in time to save it from the clearance racks. I heard from a friend who said it was a great game, and scooped up a copy from K-Mart as the last of them were flying off the shelves for $5 apiece.

Of course, as you know, now the flagship Hasbro product for Star Wars is Star Wars Miniatures. I think that SWM is a fine system and quite a bit of fun, and really is only a few magnitudes of complexity removed from Heroscape. As you are also probably aware, SWM uses the random blind booster packs for distribution.

This creates a bit of a problem.

Let's look again at Epic Duels. The game included 31 plastic figures (badly painted, but I digress), including *all* the big names from the Star Wars franchise. Vader? Mace? Luke? Leia? Han? Chewie? Boba? ALL of them were included. You also got two double-sided gameboards and custom decks for each team that was included in the game, whether it was Vader and his two Stormtroopers or the AOTC team of Jango and Zam. The kicker to all of this was the fact that even at full retail price, this only cost $20.

$20! I know most of us bought it for $5 or so, but $20! That was it!

I will not dispute that the quality of the Star Wars Minis is far better than those included in Epic Duels. But for the same $20, you get one pack of randomized figures, and you are desparately hoping every time you crack one of them open that you at least pull someone that had more than five seconds of screen time. The heart doesn't exactly leap when you reveal your treasured rare only to find San Hill (who? I'm a Star Wars geek so that's a rhetorical question, but you get my point).

Do you see the problem here?

If gamers were allowed to get their Star Wars fix in a non-randomized fashion, the ability to sell you a pack of figures containing the illustrious BoShek as your prize would be destroyed. I've seen online petitions asking for Epic Duels to be returned to print, but the rationale is the same--if you can get 31 figures for $20, why would you go back to paying the same price for 7 random ones?

I think that the potential for repeat sales of packs would be considerable--after all, just imagine how many packs of a six-pack of Stormtroopers would fly from shelves every time they were stocked. Imagine wanting to play the Endor scenario and just buying a pack of Scout Troopers to make that a reality quickly and easily. Couple that with unique packs containing Obi-Wan, Chewie, and all the rest of your favorite characters...the mind boggles.

I think that Marvel Heroscape is going to probably crush and do away with the Heroclix brand for the same reasons--if you want Ultron, why buy random packs until you hit one when you can just go pick up the "Avengers Enemies" Heroscape pack from Toys R Us? I think Hasbro understands this and won't likely trample on their own product lines. This is probably sound business, but it doesn't stop me from hoping that if the SWM line finally goes down in flames, we'll see Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight draw his lightsaber as an orc riding a dinosaur bears down on him.


Michael Barnes said...

I know most of us bought it for $5 or so, but $20!

I bought 4 copies for $5 at K-Mart, sat on them for a couple of years...sold every one of them for $75.

It isn't hard to see that EPIC DUELS was really kind of a "proto" HEROSCAPE...the sad part of it all is that the idea wasn't developed enough so that EPIC DUELS could have _been_ HEROSCAPE. I'd much rather have Star Wars characters duking it out than the generic archetypes in HEROSCAPE. I mean, wasn't that one of the chief selling points of EPIC DUELS? That _Darth Vader could fight Mace Windu_?

But you're right, there's no way we'll see a Star Wars licensed HEROSCAPE as long as SWM is around...that's a pretty fun game in its own right...in the twilight days of Atlanta Game Factory I had a bunch of folks really into it and we had these INSANSE SWM games going on...100 Stormtroopers and Grand Moff Tarkin versus a bunch of Jedi, an all-bounty hunters showdown, peewee battles pitting Ewoks versus Power Droids...it's a really fun game if you're into Star Wars and the system is basically D&D 3.0 minus all roleplaying aspects of it.

Onto the Marvel HEROSCAPE...I'm just not into pouring money into the HEROSCAPE line...I think it's an AWESOME system, and I think it's a very significant game in that it's getting a lot of young people into gaming (as opposed to CARCASSONNE and PUERTO RICO, that get middleagers into gaming)and the Marvel license is going to get even more non-gamers into it. It'll probably be a lot of fun though, and I'll almost certainly wind up with the base set.

Hunter Hearst Hobbit said...

The random element seems to be the driving force behind the SWM line. Hasbro has two SW collectable in SWM and the Attatix (sp?) game. Publishing a SW Heroscape line would wreck not one but two of their random element games.

But if Hasbro has printed a Marvel Attatix game, what does that mean for the possibility of a SW Heroscape game? I suppose I'm just spinning my wheels on that though.

An interesting possibility, although highly unlikely, is a Transformers Heroscape line. If Marvel Attatix doesn't stop Hasbro from printing Marvel Heroscape, it shouldn't stop them from printing Transformers Heroscape. Summer seems to be the best opportunity to release a new Transformer's game, but without any news coming down the line about such a possiblity, the game seems to be nothing more than a fanboy dream.

Shellhead said...

I love that candy dish!

Even though I completely abandoned everything Star Wars after The Return of the Jedi, I was persuaded to try Epic Duels. It was actually lots of fun. We ended up playing four games in a row. I would never pay $75 for it, but I would be willing to pay maybe $45.

I tried Heroscape once. The Roman legionnaires seemed broken, but it was otherwise moderately fun. However, we spent over an hour setting it up and close to a half hour putting it away, time that could have been better spent doing something more fun than playing with Legos. (Legos rocked when I was a kid, but fail to entertain me these days.)

So I'm definitely not the target market for Star Wars Heroscape. More importantly, I have finally cut all ties with any form of collectible gaming. No more CCGs, no collectible miniature games, and definitely not any new gimmicky ways for game companies to collect my money. That said, I am still in the market for any expansions to Arkham Horror, as long as FFG maintains the quality.

Just this last Saturday, I spent a beautiful afternoon inside a game shop with few windows, playing Vampire: the Eternal Struggle. I enjoy the game, and I generally like the players that I have encountered. But that meta-game has passed me by, as I haven't been buying the new cards in meaningful quantities since 2004.

Four games in a row, I got kicked to the curb with decks that were fairly respectable just two years ago, although I did put up a good fight in the fourth game. On the other hand, I only got a single minion phase during the entire first game, thanks to a predator with a vicious rush deck and an irresponsible grand prey with a big bleed deck.

I think it was actually our own Ken Bradford who helped me realize that CCGs treat players spending money as a game mechanic. So now I know better, and Heroscape won't be getting any of my cash.

Ken Bradford said...

I suppose what you're saying is true to a degree regarding Heroscape as viewed as a CCG-style game.

The differences are vast, though. CCGs reward those who are lucky with their pulls, have spent a fortune in order to BE lucky at their pulls, or who are willing to spend $$$ on singles online, replacing their luck.

With Heroscape, first up you can build a ridiculously good squad just from figures in the base set, and if you want a particular figure for a certain strategy, you just go buy the pack that has that figure in it. Can't find an older pack? Don't worry, there will be more with different powers for you to explore.

Plus, if you only have the one set with shared figures, then $$$ doesn't enter into it. You draft from the same pool. So you can't "buy" an advantage there.

I've never looked into any sort of competitive Heroscape league, so maybe the meta does break down in terms of collectibility on that level. But I don't see a game featuring non-blind boosters suffering as badly from the problems that plague CCGs--in other words, forced obsolesence of decks and strategies in an effort to move more cards.

In Heroscape, you buy new figs because they look cool or you want to try some new strategy. But Chompy eats non-uniques, same as he always does. You're not buying packs to "keep up with the Joneses".

Julian said...

Hey there Shellhead,

I think its important to distinguish between collectible games and expandable games. Basically by "collectible games" I mean ones where you don't know what you are buying, and by "expandable" I mean games where you do know.

Collectble games are the devils spawn, and I won't touch them. Heroscape's expandable. You can buy exactly what you want, and then stop. I've done that with Heroscape and I've got a decent collection with enough variety to last me.

I do think that half (maybe even three quarters) of the fun of Heroscape is the lego aspect. If you don't like make your own maps, then half the time spent playing will be tedious. I like that part. I have two master sets and two special terrain packs, and that's given me enough variety for years. You also don't play against another guys stuff, so there is no gun at your head forcing you to buy more.

I guess what I'm saying is that the expandable nature of Heroscape has allowed me to stop at a good level and without bittrerness.

Shellhead said...

Ah. I was under the impression that Heroscape packages were blind, random purchases. If you get to choose what you're buying, that's a lot better than collectible. "Expandable." That's a good distinction to make, and I know I would be okay with an expandable game. That's pretty much what Arkham Horror has become, with all those expansions.

There is one other factor that will keep me away from buying into Heroscape, and that's the storage factor. The one time I played, the guy who brought his Heroscape stuff over filled the backseat of his car with plastic storage totes containing figures and those snap-together map pieces.

My girlfriend is moving in with me soon, so I'm already under some pressure to downsize my clutter and collections. Shredding my old financial records is a hassle, but parting ways with boxes full of dead CCGs and RPGs will be much harder. My comic collection is temporarily safe, as I have volunteered to scan all 18 boxes into my computer and then save them as pdf files on discs, but my girl understands that will be a long-term project. Besides, she doesn't want me to get rid of my issues of Y the Last Man and Promethea.

Pat H said...

The Heroscape model will be successful for a long time ( I don't play it but will pickup the Marvel set to play against my 6 year old nephew as a gateway game). You have the expandable versus the collectible argument. This alone will draw a different type of gamer more along the lines of miniature gamers. You buy what you want or need rather than sinking tons of dough into random purchases. The collector as a person will collect just about anything and I think that for them is half the rush.

With Heroscape you have cheap mini's with unlimited marketing potential that is garnering a rather large following of "young" gamers which is something that this hobby has needed in numbers for years. No doubt once the little ones are done with Heroscape they will whet their appetite on something with more meat on the bones and voila you have good reason to produce quality games with lots of bits that we all enjoy.

Heroscape will expand and consume more licenses. You will see Star Wars - or whatever will sell well (new fads - Star Trek etc...) in Heroscape eventually in my opinion because they can do it. It is their vehicle now and is separate from the SWM because it isn't collectible and the mini's will be of different scale to prevent cross usage.

These Heroscape boxes are filling and emptying the shelves faster than any other "Game", as we would consider one(read - not Monopoly type). Just think of the "theme" packs that this Marvel set is starting.

(Cthulhu, LOTR etc...)

They have the pockets and now the sales.

Michael Barnes said...

Collectible games are brilliant from a capitalist standpoint- you are basically selling the equivalent of magic beans with the promise that the buyer might get a special magic bean that will give him the power to win over his peers. It's astonishingly effective meta-marketing- completely psychological and tied to human nature.

Working in the business, I've seen many a dollar cross the counter when someone gets "on the mill", as I call it...they'll buy a couple of packs of a CCG, open them, pull the ones they want out of the stack, set the castoffs aside, and then ask for 2 or 3 more packs. I started just setting the box on the counter and letting them open until they were done, and then charging the tab. I've seen people go through boxes for that 1 card (out of 300 or so) they want. I've seen people pay $100+ for the same card...all in the name of having an advantage over a friend or competitor.

Pat H said...

Shellhead don't start down that slippery slope - get a spare room for your stuff and a beer fridge. She can have the rest of the place but the game warehouse is yours.

MWChapel said...

I'd like to see a good SW universe game as well. I would hope they wouldn't license it to a shitty game like HeroScrape though. ;)

Ken Bradford said...

Oh Chapel, you rogue.

Jack Hill said...

I believe that Heroscape is on its last legs. I am certain that you will not see any new Heroscape in 2008, and I suspect that some of the products announced this year will not see the light of day.

The real reason is extended release dates. Especially for Marvel Heroscape. That was originally announced for the holiday season. Then it got pushed to the beginning of the summer blockbuster season. Now it is due---July? Maybe?

If they are going to screw around like that with potentially lucrative product, the rest of Heroscape is pretty doomed.

It has been a remarkable run---better than Heroquest.

Doom. Doom I say!!!!

Shellhead said...

Pat h: get a spare room for your stuff and a beer fridge. She can have the rest of the place but the game warehouse is yours.

That was the original theory for this new 2BR apartment(except that the regular fridge is large enough to hold our food plus my beer), but moving from a place with 2 walk-in closets to none has been traumatic. Now that all of my stuff has been forced out into the open, even I was appalled by a pile that was roughly an 8-foot cube.

And I do like the idea of using the spare bedroom as an office/study, since she's going to be spending long hours studying for law school.

Pat H said...

Shellhead - "I was appalled by a pile that was roughly an 8-foot cube."

Uh oh, first cube confusion and now this new beast. What is the counter to this new threat?

I feel your pain as the house I bought a couple of years ago sacrificed the closet space in the bedroom for a Jacuzzi in the bathroom. Strange choice but only really served to highlight my box collection again.

The way I countered was to introduce gaming to the wife after close to 10 years together and it worked. I now have a loving wife who loves to shaft me at Zombies!! and then fuck off with the helicopter.

Shellhead said...

Pat h: The way I countered was to introduce gaming to the wife after close to 10 years together and it worked. I now have a loving wife who loves to shaft me at Zombies!! and then fuck off with the helicopter.

The main reason my board games are not on the chopping block is that I actually got a board game published by White Wolf last year. Ever since I got paid for that (not an impressive amount, but the check cleared just fine) my girlfriend has actually displayed some limited interest in my boardgames. However, she is a little disturbed by the content of my collection, which is heavy on the violent AmeriTrash stuff. (She said, "So much death...", and then shook her head.)

On several occasions, I have seen her opening up game boxes and looking through the contents. Then again, when I try to get her to actually play one, she distracts me with sex, which always takes priority. And when I actually host game days at my place, she always has some conflict, like work or school or volunteer work.

StephenAvery said...

Which game Shelly? and don't get rid of your game stuff. You'll only regret it later. I will say though that RPG's don't hold their luster as much as boardgames. Still if you decide to sell, let me know- I'm the ultimate bargain hound (but maybe not the penultimate- that moniker belongs to my friend Dan Baden)

Shellhead said...


I co-designed Vampire: Dark Influences with my friend Dave Raabe. We didn't get proper credit at BGG, but our names are right there in the actual rulebook. While some of our best ideas were discarded during the development process, we were happy with the high production values of the final product.

White Wolf has another game coming out soon, Monster Mayhem, which appears to be using a couple of our main ideas from an earlier version of V:DI, back when we thought that we were going to be doing Prince of the City. Specifically, the variable map and the thirty victim cards were both concepts in our PotC design. I'm kind of flattered and kind of annoyed that our ideas got trapped under a non-disclosure agreement. It looks like Monster Mayhem will be a solid AmeriTrash game, as opposed to the Euro-AT hybrids that were V:DI and PotC.

Michael Barnes said...


You know, there's actually very few games I regret letting go...at one point, my collection was getting up to 500 titles and I started to realize that it was just excessive...no point in keeping games I'd only play once or twice or all those useless Euros...

Michael Barnes said...

Shelly, we ought to get you to do a guest column about your game, the development process, and the Euro-centric manhandling it received.

Pat H said...

Yes Shelly especially the non-disclosure part and where the line is drawn on your IP. Seeing your mechanics dropped from one title and inserted into another would not be a problem if you are given credit for it - cash is of course the best credit around.

TheRankO said...

On Ubarose's last post, I commented that Heroscape has just entered Bruno Faidutti's euro-dominated Ideal Game Library. I think this is a sign that either:

a) Heroscape has some legs and the dawn of the Ameritrash golden age is nigh, or

b) this is the equivalent of 40-year-olds using words like "peeps," "bitch ass," and "the po-po": it just ain't cool anymore.

Jack Hill said...


Making you sign an NDA is creepy. Unless you were a full-time employee. It is becoming a more common practice, even for freelance and consulting work for the larger companies. I know Mike Fitzgerald has had to sign one for the stuff he's done on various WOTC CCG's.

As to nicking mechanics--if they paid you, then they are welcome to use and/or reuse whatever they wish.

That said, game mechanics are not sanely patentable, and cannot be covered by copyright. So pretty much anyone can legally "reuse" any mechanic they like from a game with out much fear of legal reprisal.

So even if they saw it in a prototype, they could legally reuse it. That would of course be sleazy and word gets around.

Shellhead said...


I'd be happy to do that guest column some time. I could just type it up and submit it to the F:AT email address.

I documented the whole design process and still have a ringbinder crammed with print-outs of email correspondence, layouts of prototype components, and many iterations of rules.

So I can distill all that down to several paragraphs of coherent remarks, particularly about where some AT elements were eliminated and where some Euro elements were added. Also, the playtest process may be of some interest, since we deliberately got radically different groups to try our game, including a group of Euro players.

However, first I wanna re-read what I signed off on, just to make sure I don't completely burn my bridges. White Wolf has left the door open for us to do another game for them.

Shellhead said...


When I first approached the White Wolf booth dwellers with our prototype at GenCon 2003, they were honestly afraid to even look at it until we both signed NDAs. They were happy to talk to me about the game at that time, just not in too much detail... and keep that prototype box closed.

I don't really begrudge them the use of the ideas from the first draft of our game, at least not to the extent that I would ever dream of going legal. It's more that I'm dissatisfied that my pure AmeriTrash concept got watered down into a hybrid, only to see some of those AT elements pop up in a subsequent game.

Michael Barnes said...

Shelly- PM me and we'll do it as an email interview.

Mr Skeletor said...

Fuck Star Wars.
Seriously, will someone fucking shoot this 'franchise' in the head already? The only thing that is more overused than fucking star wars is Marvel heroes. Lord of The Rings isn't much better.
Seriously, how many times do we need to see these characters in different incarnations? "Wow, how will they do wolverine?" Who fucking cares. Not me, thats for sure.
Give me something new, not the same old fart recooked characters for the 100th time.

MWChapel said...

Yeah! No doubt. Especially those light in the wrist He-Man characters. I mean come on, there are much better representations like Gary and Ace! Get with the times people!

the red phantom said...

Fuck Star Wars.
Seriously, will someone fucking shoot this 'franchise' in the head already? The only thing that is more overused than fucking star wars is Marvel heroes. Lord of The Rings isn't much better.
Seriously, how many times do we need to see these characters in different incarnations? "Wow, how will they do wolverine?" Who fucking cares. Not me, thats for sure.
Give me something new, not the same old fart recooked characters for the 100th time.

I heart Mr Skeletor. Exactly!

I'm no great lover of Star Wars, especially since most of the movies were so bad, but I do own both sets of SW Risk. I am looking forward to Marvel Heroscape, because *something's* got to take the taste of FFG's Marvel Heroes out of my mouth.

Pat H said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mr Skeletor said...

Yeah! No doubt. Especially those light in the wrist He-Man characters. I mean come on, there are much better representations like Gary and Ace! Get with the times people!

You are bitching about the overexposure of MOTU (which died in '88, 20 years ago!) and yet you are telling us to get with the times? Jesus.

ubarose said...

Mr Skeletor said...

Give me something new, not the same old fart recooked characters for the 100th time.

I'm tired of the same old, same old too. Universal has "Bran Mak Morn" in production (possible release in 2008). Fingers crossed it is so successful that FFG picks it up and makes an awesome game with Picts, and Atlantis and Roman soldiers and werewolves.

robartin said...

Universal has "Bran Mak Morn" in production

Is English still the official language around here?

ubarose said...

Sorry since there are Conan and Chthulu, and Tolkien fans here, I didn't think to explain.

The Bran Mak Morn stories were written by Robert E. Howard. Bran Mak Morn is the last King of the Picts who tries to unite the peoples of the British Isles to fight against the Romans. The Picts and their allies have supernatural powers, including stuff like the host of the king of Atlantis.

These stories influenced Tolkien. Also, since Howard was friends with Lovecraft, there are Cthulhu references. Lovecraft references Bran Mak Morn in one of his stories, but I can't remember which one.

Cool stuff.

ubarose said...

That should be ghost of the king of Atlantis, not host.

William Boykin said...

An interesting thing about "collectible games" - Other than Magic; The Gathering, they don't seem to do well unless they are tied in with a franchise.

Hasbro's Star Wars CMG is doing pretty well, but their Axis and Allies:Miniatures is doing BAD. (The Naval version is picking up a bit though, it looks). In the CCG world, the Star Wars and Star Trek games, no matter their flaws, were able to do pretty well for a bit, but other games (Atlas Games Over the Edge, Steve Jackson Illuminati New World Order), which I think were better games, died on the vine.

I think that while Collectible games have a greater potential for profit, that profit only comes if you can suck people in for the LONG haul. And to do that, the game better be really good and played by a BUNCH of people (Magic), or be able to tie into some element of Fandom. (Star Wars, Star Trek).

On the other hand, Expandable games have a lot of potential for genres or 'universes' that aren't pre-produced for you. Heroscape has done a great job in creating their 'multi-world' over time with expansions. I have a lot of hope for the World Tank Museum models- pre painted 10mm WWII vehicles, $5.00 each or 5 for $20.00, that are REALLY pretty. And you can buy what you want- what you see is what you get.

For me, expandable games seem to be the way to go, unless you got a lot of money to give to Paramount or Lucasfilms- and if thats the case, why are you posting here?

If you won't pay your $1.05 for freedom, who will?

not billy sparkles said...

Thanks ubarose. I didn't know R.E Howard had another fantasy(ish?) line out there other than Conan-- which I just luuurrrve.

This is definately something that I'll look into.

TheRankO said...

And don't forget Howard's King Kull, either.

Jeez, I knew you F:AT guys were young, but damn... Next thing you know, Ubarose will have to give a precis on John Carter, Warlord of Mars.

ubarose said...

Confession, I haven't read any Kull and have only read one John Carter. Both are on my to-read list (which is absurdly long). We actually own a bunch of John Carter books, so I really have no excuse to not have read them.

Michael Barnes said...

Awesome, I hadn't heard about the Bran Mak Morn film...now if they'd just do Solomon Kane, Howard's best character after Conan...

TheRankO said...

You give this old dork some hope, Barnes.

And Ubarose, a counter-confession -- hell, I haven't read any Kull or Bran Mak Morn (well, except for Karl Edward Wagner's pastiche). But the John Carter novels are good in a creaky, Victorian kind of way; give 'em a read.

Hey, you people ought to do some columns on Ameritrash fiction!

ubarose said...

Actually, I have been working on a post entitled "AT Cultural Literacy."

If anyone has any suggestions, send them to the F:AT email address with "Cultural Literacy" in the subject. Or you can just wait and add/argue/debate in the comments.

Ken B. said...

It's good to see thread hijackery lives on in the F:AT forums.


Now excuse me, I'm off to go play with my Star Wars toys.

Hee hee! *Pchew! Pchew!* *GARRRRLLLL*

TheRankO said...

Easy there, Franklin! I added my two cents to the Heroscape discussion earlier -- and got a big Jack Squat in response.

Ken B. said...

I'm just razzin' y'all. You'uns. Whatever.

As for Faidutti giving it a thumbs up, I think that's great. If Reiner started playing it...that brings up images of bow ties Daddio, so the COOL would be off the CUCUMBER in that case.

Michael Barnes said...

Yeah, Reiner getting into HEROSCAPE would by like when the Dean of the college shows up at the end of the movie with a lampshade and panties on his head, tie loosened, shouting "Let's party dudes!"

Michael Barnes said...

Come to think of it, that's kind of what it was like when Tom Vasel posted here...

Jack Hill said...

I'm not into Star Wars either, but I also remember not liking He-Man. (Except for the movie. It wasn't He-Man, but it was...interesting.)

I'd personally vote for Thundarr the Barbarian. There just isn't enough Thundarr stuff around. Much better than He-Man.

Shellhead said...

I had fond young memories of Thundarr the Barbarian, until a terrible thing happened in 2003: I watched several episodes in a row when a friend bought the dvd set. It turned out that Thundarr was actually a truly awful cartoon with an occasional decent visual in the mix.

robartin said...

What about those awesome Thor cartoons that played in the late 70's where the only thing that moved was the guys' mouths? Great stuff.

Jack Hill said...

Only the mouths? Like Clutch Cargo?

Thundarr was extremely repetitive by modern standards. I still remember it as my favorite at the time.

It didn't compare to the still entirely watchable Dungeons and Dragons cartoons. (The writing on those is quite good by cartoon standards.)

They've already got a game, however.

I mean even He-Man got an RPG, and cool playsets. It just isn't fair.

Anonymous said...

heroscape is going to kill boardgami9ng because you ocd guys are going to spend all your money on stupid hasbro toys instead of supporting innovation in the relm of games thjat are designed to be fun for players of all ages

mark my words

breity said...

Wait, there was a Thundarr DVD set in 2003? How did I miss that? Have I been smoking crack that long?

Ken B. said...

Alrighty, anonymous, I will mark your words.


Rliyen said...

heroscape is going to kill boardgami9ng because you ocd guys are going to spend all your money on stupid hasbro toys instead of supporting innovation in the relm of games thjat are designed to be fun for players of all ages

Thanks, anonymouse, for that eloquent argument! *writes down inane gibberish to read later, point to, and laugh*

Doesn't matter to me, I for one WELCOME their purchases! (owns Hasbro stock)

Shellhead said...

Here's a link where you can buy that dvd:


Jeez, there was even a Thundarr boardgame:


Anybody ever play it?

Mr Skeletor said...

Nope, but it looks Thundarriffic.

Anonymous said...

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