Tuesday, 15 May 2007

Mr Skeletor’s Mailbag, 14th May

We will just skip over the fact that this thing is late (real world get’s in the way sometimes) and get straight in…

Dennis “139 lines that distill down to “theme good.”" Ugolini writes:


My article entitled "The Art of the Lie" is included below.

And for what it's worth, I'm not trying to be a dick. My posts are motivated by two things:

1. I think the whole "BGG are closed-minded jerks out to get us" focus is limiting how good your site could be.

2. The problem with setting up shop away from the people who disagree with you is that you stop questioning each other, for fear of being labeled "one of them" and cast out. Looking for holes in each other's arguments can be a healthy thing. Nearly all of the blog comments right now are "great read", whether it's a great read (which some are) or not. I'd like to see more "yeah, but what about this?", because that's how interesting discussion starts.

Anyway, that's my deal. I hope you like the article.

- Dennis Ugolini

I’ll post Dennis’ article in a separate post so that it can get its own conversation thread going.

Gary “I watch your microbadges” Sax writes:

Mr Skeletor:

One thing that always strikes me when I look at many of the more
"elite" gamers in the BGG scene is that many (most?) of them seem to
be evangelical Christians, Mormons, etc. Tom Vasel, for example, IIRC
is doing missionary work in Korea. Does this have a big effect on the
themes and moral constraints of the games that get discussed in the
overall discourse of BGG? You could also broaden the question to
boardgamers in general. Many of the game groups I see being discussed
and played at on BGG are being played at churches and church groups.
Could this be part of the reason we're constantly playing games themed
to trading resources and moving camels across deserts? Many AT themes
and mechanics would not fit well with a group of good Christian
gamers.

I'm not sure if I'm bothered by this, but it occurs to me that I don't
see as much of a slant, say, in wargames, which I play a lot--most of
the people who play wargames don't seem to be advertising themselves
as Christians or evangelicals and often discuss drinking beer all day
during a game and whatnot.

One might be able to do some interesting analysis looking at the
Christian microbadge and who holds it and what games they tend to be
fans of and rate highly, etc. That may reveal whether this feeling on
my part is more empirical trend or just my own spurious observation.

-Gary Sax

This trend has been noted by more than a few people. What you have to remember is that unlike other forms of gaming such as videogames or gambling, boardgames are viewed as a wholesome family oriented activity which therefore attracts the Sunday Church crowd. On the other hand plastic space ships and big titted Amazonian women tend to attract the Kevin Smith style ‘nerd’ crowd into boardgaming, which are basically us. One group are all about niceties, sharing experiences and spreading the word of boardgames, the other wants to cuss, be obnoxious and bitch about which Star Wars movie sucked the most.

Euros tend to have more wholesome themes and less direct conflict, so it’s natural that they will tend to appeal more towards the Churchies. On the other hand, the geeky themes and boisterous violent game play of AmeriTrash is more likely to appeal to the nerds as Wargames will appeal mainly to history buffs. While most people will say they ‘love all games’ which to a degree is true, I think deep down everyone has a subtype that appeals to them above the others.

If someone did do the study you suggest, I think the safe money would be on most outspoken Christians preferring Euro games, ‘cept for Jesus of course who was a big Titan fan.

The question is who out there is up for doing this analysis?


Thaadd “Shorts with back stockings is the new look” Powell writes:

Dear Mr. Skeletor,

What's your take on collaborative Ameritrash games - can you be 'trashy' without elimination? What would you consider the best of that variety? We know you like Descent - how about Arkham? Are there other ones that are less well known?

/A Trash Fan

(Might not be a problem to use my name, but I don't want to look like a company shill, and I know half the company reads Fortress now... /Thaadd)

Don’t worry Trash Fan, you’re identity is safe with me.

I am quite a fan of Collaborative games - arguably most dungeon crawls, which are my forte, are collaborative to some degree, which is a topic I may write an article about. Collaborative games also tend to be very story driven, which is something I enjoy. Also they are easy to solo, for those of us who don’t have wives to game with.

As a young lad I was a real gamebook freak, and still have an entire collection of the old ‘fighting fantasy’ series sitting on my second to bottom shelf. . These things were essentially solo games, were you the player ‘took on’ the book - I may write an article about these things one day. Anyway collaborative games are pretty much the same thing, except that instead of taking on a book you’re taking on a boardgame, and the experience can be shared by many players rather than just yourself.

I’m a huge Arkham Horror fan, I have it rated at BGG as an 8 though it should be a 10 considering I played in 4 times in one weekend not too long ago. I’m scared to up my rating though as Nate will tease me.
Lord off the Rings is a game I originally didn’t like but have recently done a 180 on and now really enjoy. Shadows over Camelot is a game I really enjoyed but now am not so sure if it’s that good – without the traitor the game would be really bland I feel. Warhammer Quest still stands as the essential dungeon masterless dungeon crawl, though it does have a few problems (hmm, I smell another article.) I automated the Night King’s role in Runebound’s Midnight expansion which turned that into a pretty cool co-op (if only it wasn’t so freaking impossible) and normally play World of Warcraft in a co-op mode when teaching new people.

Can’t think of any more co-op games I have played, so I’ll have to throw the floor open to the masses to let me know which ones are worth checking out.

If you have any mail for this segment that you would like to send in address it to fortressat@gmail.com with [mailbag] in the header.

68 comments:

Matt Thrower said...

I've always found that co-op games without an "opposing" player (i.e. SoC, FoD) tend to end up being completely dominated by the loudest and/or most experienced player who just tells everyone else what to do.

And are, as a result, crap.

What kind of proper AT player plays a game where you can't taunt the opposition and mock the looser anyway? You'd look pretty silly standing up and threatening the Arkham Horror card stack with dire retribution if it dare throw up a particularly horribly Great Old One on you.

Anonymous said...

Talking of Fighting Fantasy games, I've got a two player one called Test of the Twins (or something like that). It came with two books (one for each player) and was pretty nifty. I had this as a present one year and I've never seen it anywhere since.

Panzer Attack

Tom Hazlett (Southernman) said...

LotR with the Sauron expansion solves the problem when someone in the group is feeling a bit irritated and doesn't want to hold hands with everyone else - I love playing Sauron and trying to toast those screaming little hobbits, and from the other end it is a good game working with a few others trying to stop the gloating loudmouth playing Sauron from winning ... so problem nearly solved.

I think you can just about throw Fortress America in the same basket as 'LotR with Sauron' - basically you have three working against one but then right at the end if you are an attacker and have triumphed you get a quick shot at smacking over your former allies !!!

And 'Space Crusade' is in the same formula again - co-op three against one, also 'Scotland Yard'.
An old ICE game, 'Riddle of the Ring', has four vs four in co-op play (still trying to get this one out).

andrew said...

i use firefox adblock to block the christian related avatars and microbadges at BGG. some dude has a giant horeshoe affixed to a cross as his avatar. ridiculous. i'd rather not see that crap and am grateful that firefox lets me choose not to.

andrew said...

horeshoe? now that would be classy. of course, i meant horseshoe.

Shellhead said...

My regular gaming group loves collaborative (or mostly collaborative) AmeriTrash. Arkham Horror gets heavy play, and so did the original Arkham Horror before we got a little burned out on it in the mid-90's. Fury of Dracula is another favorite, and we often enjoy the fully-errata'd Betrayal at House on the Hill, depending on the scenario.

Even some of my oldest AT games still get some play because of collaborative elements: especially Intruder and Slasher Flick: Revenge of the Boogeyman. The Vesuvius Incident would get more play if the rules weren't so difficult.

Pat H said...

Fortress America has temporary co-op that boils down to "who can lie first and the best" element if the invader wins. Nice touch in my opinion.

I have had games of Heroquest where the "experienced know it all" player that Matt speaks of was killed by the other players in order to shut them up - basically letting him/her know that they are willing to throw the game in order to have this person pipe down.

Shellhead said...

Yeah, fragging the bossy guy is good for the health of the gaming group. I did enjoy Lord of the Ring at first, but the bossy types eventually ruined the game for us by constantly telling everybody what to do.

Arkham Horror is a tough game that I have played many times, and with Dark Pharoah and Dunwich Horror mixed in, we are now losing about 70% of the time. Even so, I refuse to coach newer players on how to play their turn. I will give them a broad selection of options, and make sure they understand the icons at each town location so they know where to go to get money or buy things. But I would rather lose to the Great Old One (again) then deprive a new player of the fun of exploring the game.

Michael Barnes said...

LOTR is both collaborative _and_ an elimination game...how 'bout it, Matt?

Collaborative games- with proper themes- are great. I do think that the "all against one" model is a little more interesting than AI/automated opposition, but there's some really interesting mechanics that can make for challenging games- like ARKHAM HORROR.

Now, if the collaboration is themed with building a cathedral, setting up trade routes or poisoning the minds of young people with spiritually fascistic, hateful, death-worshipping religions that feature undead bearded white men that perform necromancy, then yeah, collaborative games suck.

I think Gary is spot-on about the religious thing...you know, when I was growing up I never considered board games to be "wholesome", likely because everything I played was festooned with demons, tanks, and demon tanks. And lots of skulls. I liked the Fiend Folio better than the bible. Games were for nerds like me, not the Christers or the damn Mormons, they were all out to "get" games and gamers.

I have noticed this puritanical bent myself, and although I completely support others' rights to believe whatever nonsensical pie-in-the-sky crap they choose to, I think it is ultimately part of the reason why AT themes and styles of gaming have fallen into ill repute. Of course, I know some Eurogamers who are total heathens and some AT gamers who might as well be sainted, so it's not an exclusive thing either way.

But as far as I'm concerned, Christian gaming isn't that far removed from Christian rock.

Shellhead said...

Heh. If Winger was a boardgame, what game would it be?

Julian said...

I'm surprised to find that people play Fortress America with the individual Invader victory rules. WE threw out the individual victory rules, because in my experience, THe USA can always win, by picking on one player, and having them back off because they are worried about an Individual victory. I thought it was like A&A in that nobody plays with the Individual victory.

Talking about A&A, there's a whole class of games where you are split into two teams, and you have to cooperate with your team members to win. They're both cooperative and competitive.

I'm sure that there are many fine upstanding Christian baordgamers, but I've found that people who buy the Christian microbadge might as well have bought an arsehole microbadge, because that's how they all act.

Michael Barnes said...

I actually saw a debate somewhere about the Christian microbadge...whether it should be first in the row because you put Jesus first, or in the center because you live a Christ-centered life.

Serious stuff there...big decisions.

Mike said...

"But as far as I'm concerned, Christian gaming isn't that far removed from Christian rock."

To make a Chistian rock song you just replace the word "baby" with "Jesus". Using that principle it sounds to me like you can get more Christians playing AT games if you make the following changes to your favorite titles:

Zombies --> Heathens and/or Followers of Satan
Wizards --> Saints
Evil Wizards --> Pornographers and/or TV Execitives
Demons --> Adulters
Succubi --> Unwed Mothers
Aliens --> Scientologists
Monsters ---> Liberals
Dragons --> Actually, Dragons are in the bible, they should be OK. Ever wonder why Christians have such a hard time with them?
Dice --> Prayers to Jesus

Michael Barnes said...

I saw a review of HEX HEX that Tom "Jesus" Vasel did wherein he describes how the curse theme was somehow offensive so they changed it so that it wasn't a curse getting hot-potatoed around, it was a "little bomb". I guess getting blown to pieces and having your guts strewn over the table is less offensive to God than a make-believe curse.

To make a Chistian rock song you just replace the word "baby" with "Jesus".

You mean like "Jesus Got Back" or
"Hit Me Jesus, One More Time"?

Shellhead said...

Dice --> Prayers to Jesus

Reminds me of a line from an old Mad magazine movie parody: "Come seven, come eleven, for our Father in heaven!"

ironcates said...

[i]I'm sure that there are many fine upstanding Christian baordgamers, but I've found that people who buy the Christian microbadge might as well have bought an arsehole microbadge, because that's how they all act.[/i]

Being an evangelical christian and an ameritrash gamer I feel I'm a niche within a niche. I'm glad I have a sense of humor about it or I could get really depressed and angry at the world (and Euro gamers). But really, I don't see the conflict. Games are games not real life and _sometimes_ the experience is more meaningful to me as a Christian. For example, we played a game of Betrayal at house on the Hill last weekend and my character became possesed by a Demon Lord. Although I'd probably never watch a movie surrounding this theme, we all had a good laugh over the game and my opponents said, "WE'RE GONNA SEND THAT DEMON BACK TO HELL!"

Jesus didn't say, "You're not allowed to have any fun unless you're laughing at how dumb the devil is."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGA2wx3urwY

Jack Hill said...

I've not seen a Christian game more offensive than Salvation: The Game of Saints and Sinners.

You move along a pair of outer track collecting money and Salvation tokens. At points, you can choose to walk the straight path which has almost no temptation markers, or walk the line between good and evil, and take the path that offers more money and temptation tokens.

The tokens go in a little plastic mailbox that reads "airmail from heaven", and the game ends when the 3 signs of the apocalypse are turned up.

Everybody dies, and people count up their mailboxes, and some go to heaven, and some go to hell.

So it is a sort of the boardgame equivalent of Blood Freak. (Look it up.)

Pat H said...

Beware the religisnoots....

Jeb said...

I think what defines an AT game is aggression more than player elimination per se. No one confuses--literally--bean counting with shotgunning Elder Things in the nuts*. Remember that a game like Win Place & Show is an AT Classic, but it's not all about elimination or even shooting horses (though that slowass nag better shape up unless she wants a quick trip to Elmerville). It's about aggressively interacting with other folks at the table. There's nothing aggressive about choosing Prospector for the eight fucking time. That's the real difference. Well, that and the distinct lack of wooden chips to represent everything in the damn game.



*They have nuts, right? What have been shotgunning on those things?

Michael Barnes said...

See, Ironcates shows that you can have belief and not be a dick- not to mention a sense of humour and an awareness of what fantasy is and it isn't. Well done.

Another relgious game out there is REDEMPTION: CITY OF BONDAGE. I think I went to that place once back in the ol' high school goth days. The DJ sucked, played nothing but Sisters of Mercy and Thrill Kill Kult.

Anyway, it's actually a Richard Borg design. Frank Branham had it out last week at Mercer Meeples but apparently its promise of titular redemption didn't work as he followed it up with a play (likely the world's first) of the Insane Clown Posse game QUEST FOR SHANGRI-LA.

"A wizard emerges from behind a curtain. He is wearing a profane T-shirt".

Fortress said...

Nice work on keeping Thaad's identity secret...

Great, now we'll NEVER get replacement parts from FFG ever again. Thanks, Skelly.

Ken B. said...

Whoops! That was me. That's what I get for checking the Fortress Mailbag and then heading over to the blog without signing out.

DanielC said...

You realise you're just contributing to Thaadd's goal of returning more Google hits on her name than any other person in the history of the world, right?

Also: Coopetitive makes for the best of both worlds. Virtually any game mechanic or trope is acceptable if it contributes to a compelling story and play experience.

Anonymous said...

I don't see why Christians should have to conceal their beliefs when the user profile features of BGG are obviously designed so that you can indicate your interests, motivations, occupations &c. It is unfortunate that politeness is defined as not exposing any opinions that others might disagree with rather than just politely disagreeing. Excuse me if I find it not a little bit hypocritical that the Christian microbadge created such a storm in a teapot but nobody bothers to object to the atheist microbadge or the frequent advocacy of alcohol consumption that's present even in this post. Is it OK to encourage people to damage their brains with alcohol, yet not OK to acknowledge that one is Christian without even conducting any explicit advocacy?

Michael Barnes said...

Have a beer anonymous...it'll calm you down.

Gary Sax said...

No. If you read my point, I was actually making an observation about the possibility that the innocuous themes that dominate Euros (and their success) may perhaps be shaped by the religious restrictions/preferences of their users. I find that, if true (it may not be), an interesting observation about the way the boardgame hobby is segmented and why I may not be interested or relate to some of the themes, when they exist at all, in mainstream Euros. It'd be interesting if true.

I missed the part where I said you should conceal your beliefs; in fact, you'll note that in fact the existence of those badges could be interesting evidence to confirm or reject my hypothesis!

Mr Skeletor said...

You realise you're just contributing to Thaadd's goal of returning more Google hits on her name than any other person in the history of the world, right?

I don't think even with my amazing powers of internet influence she could possibly get more hits than Paris Hilton or Pamela Anderson. Unless she is planning to 'leak' a secret personal sex tape - Hmmm, maybe the username "Thaad Loves Orcs" is not as innocent as it at first seems...

Mr Skeletor said...

I don't see why Christians should have to conceal their beliefs when the user profile features of BGG are obviously designed so that you can indicate your interests, motivations, occupations &c. It is unfortunate that politeness is defined as not exposing any opinions that others might disagree with rather than just politely disagreeing.

No one has to conceal anything. However if you are going to put that badge on you have to expect that people will judge you by it, just like people judge me when I walk down the street with a tu-tu. As far as your second point goes, maybe you should look in your own backyard first, since it seems more than a few Christian Microbadgers are only too happy to not being exposed to opinions they disagree with.

Julian said...

I don't see why Christians should have to conceal their beliefs when the user profile features of BGG are obviously designed so that you can indicate your interests, motivations, occupations &c. It is unfortunate that politeness is defined as not exposing any opinions that others might disagree with rather than just politely disagreeing.

I don't think that anyone here want's Christians to conceal their beliefs. I don't know if my comment contributed to that impression. My comment was just that I find that certain people with the Christian microbadge aren't exactly good advertisements for their beliefs, given the way they behave. My problem is their behavior is impolite, not their badges. (It's only a few of the badge holders. I was jokingly generalising.) No one's saying you shouldn't have any badge you want, or believe anything you want.

Anonymous said...

Have you considered the possibility that the rude people with the Christian microbadges may be trolls? I won't commit the "no true Scotsman" fallacy by saying that anyone who behaves rudely is not really a Christian, but taking those people as exemplars is probably misguided. Trolls often take up strong idealistic positions to salt the wounds (and stoke the prejudices) of those they've offended. No matter your thoughts on Christians, seeing that a person who has offended you carries such a badge is likely to compound the injury and the ire. In the case that you are Christian, or sympathetic to Christians, you're likely to be even more angry because the person is setting a bad example and sullying the reputation of Christians. If you dislike Christians on some level, you're also likely to offer a vehement reaction at being spurned by "those Christians" again. A calculated antagonist has nothing to lose and a lot to gain by adding such details to his invented persona. If you think people won't go to such lengths, you haven't been long on the "internets."

Clarissimus said...

some dude has a giant horeshoe affixed to a cross as his avatar.

I think he's an Indy Colts fan.

Julian said...

No they're not trolls. They're established members. But I think, in fairness, there's a good chance that I only notice it because of the contrast with the badge. If people with BattleLore trivia badges were consistently rude I would never notice that fact. Also, I'm sure that I don't notice when people with Christian microbages are not being rude, because there's no reason to go check them out to see who they are. I'm not scanning their microbadges. So it's probably a bit of inadvertent selective attention on my part.

Thaadd said...

Eh, mostly I did not want to seem like a jerk for only being able to name FFG collaborative games.

I wear tights under the shorts as an assist to camera people, so they don't have to change light exposure times to compensate for my paste white legs! Besides - Skull tights rock. You just wish you had tights as cool as me.

And the Thaadd Loves Orcs came my 8 month campaign to get the Powers That Be on the Midnight movie let me BE an orc. Which succeeded. Providing I'm not on the digital cutting room floor, there is about 2 seconds of me getting killed in a rockfall... Had nothing to do at all with the OrcBoys being tall guys wearing full leather armour with swords....none whatsoever...

Anonymous said...

Just because they're established members doesn't mean they can't be trolls.

c said...

I think Gary is spot-on about the religious thing...you know, when I was growing up I never considered board games to be "wholesome", likely because everything I played was festooned with demons, tanks, and demon tanks. And lots of skulls. I liked the Fiend Folio better than the bible. Games were for nerds like me, not the Christers or the damn Mormons, they were all out to "get" games and gamers.

I can assure you that Mormons in good standing can and do play games involving demons, war, etc. Some may even read and enjoy this Web log.

Mr Skeletor said...

I find it unlikely that established members are going to go to such extreme lengths as to pretend to be Chirstians for such an extended period of time just to pull of a trolling trick. If you disagree feel free to name who exactly you think doesn't belong to the religious group he claims.
Regardless everyone will be getting Christian micro badges as I now have proof that God exists... that's right bitches, TIDE OF IRON IS SITTING ON MY DESK AS I TYPE THIS! SUCK ON THAT YOU YANK BASTARDS!

Mr Skeletor said...

Providing I'm not on the digital cutting room floor, there is about 2 seconds of me getting killed in a rockfall...

Geez, thanks for the spoiler warning!

Thaadd said...

Hey. I've had replacement parts for ToI for a month.

I expect a review here, though. Fistfuls of little black dice! 11lbs of stuff!

Michael Barnes said...

Have you considered the possibility that the rude people with the Christian microbadges may be trolls?

So you're saying that the missionaries have started working on converting Trolls? What's next? Tom Vasel begging for paypal donations to take his mission to Orc territories?

At any rate, can we talk about something other than BGG and Christianity, like things that are relevant to either boardgaming or modern life?

Pat H said...

How about those Red wings? 5-0.

ubarose said...

About the Christian thing, I think that Evangelical Christians just make themselves more visible than people of other faiths, so it seems like there are relatively more of them than there actually are.

Thaadd said...

Skull tights rock. You just wish you had tights as cool as me.


I do wish that I had tights as cool as yours.

Ken B. said...

Selective perception. We see what we see because we filter it. If we're looking for smokers, wow! Everyone's smoking.

For the record, I am also Christian. You will never catch me beating anyone over the head with it. My language is salty, and I've played every occult-themed game known to man (Dragonlords 1st Edition looks like it's a part of some Satanic ritual). But I try to be a nice guy, and that's why. Examples are much better than microbadges. Microbadges are for trivial stuff like "Go Braves!" or "I like steak."

Hey Thaadd, I need some replacement parts for a couple of recent FFG acquisitions! I hope you guys got my email.

Russ Fade said...

4 of the gamers in my group sport Cross MB's. They're fine, upstanding guys who I think the world of. I'm 10x's the arsehole that any of them are.

Michael Barnes said...

Christians are just like liberal demagogues...the shrillest, most outspoken, and brash amongst them completely undermine any good and positive contributions the rest of them make and wind up making outsiders think that anyone under their respective banners are complete freaks.

But how 'bout them board games?

ironcates said...

The greatest arguement against Christianity is Christians.

On to the games, I'm dying to find a decent Christian themed game. Unfortunately, the Christian sub-culture tends to produce crap, as many of you know.

I don't see why there can't be a good game about the exodus. If they can make an 'alrigtht' game about the puerto rican slave trade, they should be able to make a good game about David and the Israelites fighting the Goliath and the "uncircumcised" Philistines. The book of Judges would be a great theme, some of the stories are hilarious in there, like when the fat king gets stabbed with a sword and he's so fat that the hilt goes into him too. Seems to me that it would be a cash cow if a game publisher would give a Biblically themed game the treatment they would give a LOTR game.

Where am I off? Should I just design the thing myself?

Ken B. said...

You guys haven't seen anything until you've seen "Bible: The TCG". You want to talk about cash-ins? Here's a game where the cards look like they were designed in MS Paint, the mechanics of Magic were stolen wholesale, and the pictures are all of this guy's friends and kids with a sheet on their head to make them look Arabic. ("My, that sure is one pale Middle-Easterner!")


The best part is that one of the cards uses the phrase "Tap your Jesus to..." and does so completely without any sense of irony.

Julian said...

Michael Barnes said...

But how 'bout them board games?

I think it's too late for that. But picking up on a different comment of Mr. Skeletor's; Phantom Menace is the worst of the Star Wars movies.

Pat H said...

Those Christians having been tapping into Jesus for years.

All kidding aside religion is serious and subjective. I for one don't like the idea of games based on religious themes unless it is the backdrop or setting. The overall mechanics should not have anything to do with actual beliefs and their interpretation because it just wont work. The only way to pull this off is to design a game that is targeted directly at a certain sects belief system.

I'm a Catholic (non practicing in the traditional sense)and I married a Mormon 15 years ago and it ended in disaster (for several reasons). The more fundamental the person the more unwavering the perception - no fun to game that. Design a game that Mormon's and Catholics can agree on the basic premise (Jesus lived and died)and after that part things quickly become argumentative and fall apart. Religion is for private consumption and does not necessarily "Play" to a larger audience. The reason we have so many splinter groups is because everyone has a different idea on how exactly the story should be told.

Religion and games = niche nonsense and boredom. Not enough freedom with gunplay. I play games to get a little action in that I would never bother with in real life, not the other way around. How about a game where you are "Tempted" to consume alcohol - OH MY!! I can imagine the white knuckled action.

There is some good shit in Exodus however.

Sorry if anyone is remotely offended.

Michael Barnes said...

One day I'm going to break down and write "The Bible 2" and become famous...I mean, it's the best selling, most popular book of all time and it certainly deserves a sequel, right?

Pat H said...

It'll be tough to write in some of the more popular characters that were killed off but it's do-able.

Be careful though, you might inadvertently start your own sect and be run out of Georgia.

Michael Barnes said...

Oh, don't worry...we'll catch up with the favorite characters and see where they've gone since we last met up with them. I'm going to stick to the BATMAN formula and introduce TWO villains in the second one.

I'm also thinking that Christ needs a sidekick. Other than John the Baptist.

Pat H said...

Who else other than Judas - always ribbing him and creating trouble.

ironcates said...

One day I'm going to break down and write "The Bible 2" and become famous

Mohammed and Joespeh Smith already tried that. You need to do the Bible 4.

How about a game where you are "Tempted" to consume alcohol - OH MY!! I can imagine the white knuckled action.

There is some good shit in Exodus however.

Sorry if anyone is remotely offended.


As a Christian who enjoys beer, wine, and whiskey on occasion (so long as I won't cause another brother to stumble back into alcholism) i think this theme would be great.

Exodus is great because Christians, Jews, and Muslims all like Moses. Ancient Egyptians might be pissed though.

I think religous themes don't work more so because of non-believers than believers. For example, Ark of the Covenant is IMO the best of the Carcassone's, the sheperd scoring and Ark movement balance the game better for beginners. The theme is barely there but, if I try to bring it out with non-christians I get eyes rolling and complaints. I just don't get it.

Michael Barnes said...

Yes, he'll definitely be back...as MECHAJUDAS. He'll have exploding, razor-tipped lips.

Michael Barnes said...

Mohammed and Joespeh Smith already tried that. You need to do the Bible 4.

Hmm...maybe a series reboot then? THE BIBLE BEGINS or BIBLE ROYALE?

if I try to bring it out with non-christians I get eyes rolling and complaints. I just don't get it.

Blame Stryper.

Pat H said...

... really shiny, with flames that occasionally are timed to jump out of his nostrels when the action heats up.


Seriously if they named it "Fart & Loven'it" with different artwork it would go over better, I know. There are a myriad reasons why for even devout Christians the theme can get off track because of the variation in viewpoint.

Now back to "Exodus 2:Lock Stock and Two Smokin' Tablets!"

Mr Skeletor said...

On to the games, I'm dying to find a decent Christian themed game. Unfortunately, the Christian sub-culture tends to produce crap, as many of you know.

Yeah, the Sistine Chapel really is crap.
And I guess Crusader Rex sucks balls, and everyone who was praising it last week on here was drunk at the time.

The problem with religious boardgames is they normally have to dump a bunch of 'educational' shit in there because they are really meant to be conversion tools. If they could keep that aspect out Theme wise religion has awesome potential for boardgames. Fuck Starcraft, the next big boxed game should be Moses vs the Egyptians. "I cast 'plauge of locus on the left flank' before moving Moses back towards the burning busgh to get some healing."

Also am I the only one suspecting Barnes had bit of a traumatic childhood involving a priest? The dude seems to hate religion more than Stalin.

Turek said...

prequels and crossovers are hottest thing now.

Clarissimus said...

I like Stryper.

Turek said...

and what about 'Bible: Directors Cut'?

Michael Barnes said...

I was thinking "The Bible: Renegade Version"

Michael Barnes said...

Also am I the only one suspecting Barnes had bit of a traumatic childhood involving a priest?

It's true. I went to a Catholic church and we had this youth group that my parents forced me to attend. It was Halloween and they put on a haunted house- a proper haunted house, not one of those bizarre "Hallelujah Houses" designed to scare kids into belief. In one of the rooms, one of our priests (Father Don)had this kid tied up and he had a circular saw dipped in blood that he turned on and menaced us with. I never forgot that image, and even today it's how I view the Catholic Church.

As a footnote...half the kids in the youth group were tripping that night. Not me or my pal David Green, we were straightedgers.

The dude seems to hate religion more than Stalin.

Pretty much true. I hate Stalin less.

BDKWombat said...

OMG I snorted a big looger on my screen when I read Skeletor's description of Moses vs. the Egyptians - funny shit!

Mr Skeletor said...

we were straightedgers

And like that all of your criticisms of religion come tumbling down.

Forgive me if I don't say hello to you in public.

Michael Barnes said...

Hey- blame it on Minor Threat. Those were my hardcore days, skating and drawing black X's on the hands...

Pat H said...

What is "straightedge" and how long does it take to hit you?

Thaadd said...

Michael Barnes said...

Hey- blame it on Minor Threat. Those were my hardcore days, skating and drawing black X's on the hands...

Oh, Straight Edge. There is a movement that ages well. Knew a guy who tattooed full across his back all three X's. I hope he comes up with a good cover story for later in life. Unless he is still a chaste vegan water drinker...

Anonymous said...

I hope, it's OK