The Weekly AT Snapshot - 6/22/2007
Mr. Skeletor---BANNED~!!
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Fortress: Ameritrash's own Mr. Skeletor has earned himself a nice 30-day BGG suspension, specifically for changing his avatar to the one above.
Discussion time, here...is such imagery worthy of such a harsh response? Remember, we have avatars of exploding heads, drive-by shotgun blasts, and more...
Then again, they're not posted by one of AT's most outspoken advocates, so...
This week's snapshot was submitted of course by F:AT's own Mr. Skeletor. At the very least, this should put to rest rumors of a "special" relationship between He-Man and Skeletor, "Brokeback Greyskull" style.
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Calling all photoshoppers and imagehounds! The Weekly AT Snapshot wants YOUR images! You send the picture, we add the back-story!
If you've got a great image that just screams Ameritrash, email us the image or a URL. It can be an image you created or an image you found on the web. We don't care! If it meets our strict quality standards, we'll publish it in The Weekly AT Snapshot, instantly making you an undeniable global celebrity. We'll even pimp your website if you send us the URL for that. Send all submissions to fortressat@gmail.com with the word "Snapshot" in the subject line.
144 comments:
Interesting, I can see why maybe they would remove the Avatar, or ask you to remove your Avatar, but just banning you for putting it up?
I think the folks at BGG have gotten a little full of themselves of late.
Didn't Chapel have a full frontal nude ape on there for a while? did he get banned for that?
-M
Chapel has a "Circle of Protection: Do What the Hell I Want To" going on.
He's a cool guy so I don't begrudge him that.
Sad to see BGG falling apart. It was a great source of information when I first got into board games a year ago.
*deletes his account*
Amateurs. Trolling is an art form. It takes finesse. You bitches grab me a beer, and maybe I'll throw you a morsel of wisdom some time.
Well, based on the comments on that thread I started, seems like I was off base. At least with the BGG crowd.
Apparently, a photoshop job of a barely animated cartoon character pantomiming sex with a statue is worth being banned over. He deserved it.
Whatever.
I lol'd. Having said that, Aldie's bat, ball, and rules. That doesn't make it right or fair, but after Barnes' treatment there it shouldn't be surprising.
My point was that he had made himself a target by repeatedly pushing buttons.
Would *I* have banned him?, Nah. I like Frank's posts here and there.
But am I surprised that someone finally had enough. Nope.
That is all.
That image is disgusting. I have seen the other side of that statue and there is a baby leaving the vaginal canal. So I can only assume that Skeletor is sodomizing that statue. The whole He-man cartoon has homoerotic overtones so I am not surprised. But nevertheless shouldn't BGG be open to alternative lifestyles? This a job for the ACLU!
I think the avatar is a lot less embarassing to the hobby and less disgusting than the sort of bullshit most of the posters on BGG put up there.
Of course, with their new "black van" policy of secretly banning users and with god knows what kind of behind-the-scenes folderol going on, it seems like this kind of thing is very much the "new" BGG. It's sad to see it go down in flames like it has been over the past year.
What's next guys? Do we boycott advertisers, send letters of protest to them?
All of this really indicates to me that the BGG "era" is winding down.
Yeah, I can see an email from Daniel or something- "Hey Frank, come on, take that down buddy" but a banning?
All of this really indicates to me that the BGG "era" is winding down.
Heh. I still stand by my prediction.
http://michaelchapel.blogs.com/photos/funstuff/barneswho.jpg
See you all at BGG.CON!
Was Britney Spears banned at the same time as Skeletor?
For anyone looking for my thread on BGG, I deleted it. I was incredulous with the response it was getting--essentially, Skeletor deserved it.
It was also hinted we staged the whole thing just to promote our blog. Uh...okay. So to avoid the appearance of that, I deleted it. If that had been my real intention, I would've let the post on BGG stay up, negative comments and all...after all, any attention is better than no attention.
I was incredulous with the response it was getting--essentially, Skeletor deserved it.
It's not so much that he deserved it as that he was essentially requesting it.
He hasn't been around BGG for a couple months, so what's the point of switching to a lewd avatar, except to see if he can get himself banned and raise a ruckus?
Naturally, the usual suspects will whine about how terrible BGG is becoming because someone can't use a buttfucking avatar.
It's sad to see it go down in flames like it has been over the past year.
The reports of BGG's death have been greatly exaggerated.
Man, this crap is getting boring .....
Panzer-Attack
Sad to see BGG falling apart. It was a great source of information when I first got into board games a year ago.
*deletes his account*
Oh, don't tease.
Don't worry Panzer, back to regular content next week.
THat image is clearly derivative.
It made me laugh. But it's also like dropping your pants in public. The response shouldn't have come as a surprise.
There have been other nude pictures posted on BGG and those pictures were simply removed with no banning. See how easy it gets once you start banning the users?
Reactions to Mr. Skeletor's Avatar from BGG Celebrities:
Tom Vasel: Fainted, but once recovered and heard the news started a BGG donation drive.
Derk: Extreme jealousy
Rick Thornquist: Remembers with great fondness posing for that sculpture
Alan Moon: Issues invitation to Mr. Skeletor for Gathering of Friends
Aldie: After banning Mr Skeletor notices a lot of memory being freed up on the server! hmmmmm
Greg Schloesser: Took notes and took off work early.
Perhaps. But why wouldn't he get a "hey buddy, can you take that avatar down?" geekmail?
Like I've said, I've seen tons of avatars more offensive than that parading around everyday. So what?
But anyway, like I said, small speedbump, back to normal next week. It's not like we've been harping on anything relating to BGG in quite some time in any of our blog posts...we've had discussions of music, villain roles in boardgames, an interview with Rob Daviau, a talk about AT boardgaming lineage and theme...
After cooling off from this morning, the whole thing does seem a bit silly. That's why I'm movin' on.
Did I mention the interview I'm posting next week is seven kinds of awesome?
Alan Moon: Issues invitation to Mr. Skeletor for Gathering of Friends
"With date", surely...
He should bring Teela.
No word yet if he's going to bone her.
HAW~! See what I did there?
Hmm, just when I thought this blog would amount to something Skeletor finally seals the deal for me. Adios, AT'ers, I'd rather browse BGG where some semblance of civility is maintained. I mean, what was the point of that avatar??? Show some decency Skeletor and grow up a little.
If you mean "civility is enforced with an iron hand", you're exactly right.
That's beside the point don't you think, Ken? I wouldn't won't my children exposed to such an offensive avatar in any forum, but especially so on a site that is supposed to be dedicated to games.
Jesus fucking christ...you expect "civility" from a blue musclehead with a skeleton face and a penchant for doggy style? Come the fuck on...
Maybe. However, the lion's share of BGG users are adults.
I don't let my kids read BGG. Why? There's no swear filter, graphic avatars, suggestive comments, you name it.
BUT
That's *my* choice.
Aldie has said he thought of BGG as having a "PG-13" rating. Goofy cartoon character sex probably hits about that level.
As an aside, I don't want to lose any readers over this. I know we're about "attitude" but there's only so much "Fuck off, readers!" that people can take before they decide to do just that.
If you want to hash this thing out, I'm all for the discussion.
"All of this really indicates to me that the BGG "era" is winding down."
This is the stupidest statement I have ever read!!! I think you guys are just mad that your little Blog is not making a dent in the world of boardgaming. I find it so funny that you think those interviews are so groundbreaking and original. The fact is BGG has "been there, done , that and got the t-shirt"
Keep trying but I will stick with BGG!!!
....
Did I call them groundbreaking?
Good reads, informative and tailored to a small audience. But yeah, Rob did Geekspeak in 2004. I'm pretty aware of that.
That was three years ago, so an updated perspective is nice.
"I don't let my kids read BGG. Why? There's no swear filter, graphic avatars, suggestive comments, you name it."
Point taken; however, you won't always be there to shield your children. It's offensive actions, such as the avatar in question, that should be filtered out by the community as a whole. You guys realize that the avatar is the welcome image to your blog now, right? How would you feel if you were the father of a young child who happened to be sitting right next to daddy, and you open up F:AT and see Skeletor doing his thing?
Consider how your actions affect others. That's all I'm asking. Either way, I've had enough of the language and crass attitudes. So again, adios.
F:AT is absolutely adults only. There isn't a single element of this site intended to reach a young audience. Video games are made that target adults; ditto TV shows and movies; websites are no different.
Anyway, take care.
Well, for once I had to delete an anonymous comment.
If you have something meaningful to contribute, go ahead. You be a douchebag, well, do that on your own time.
Mr. Skeletor is a terrible midwife.
Oh yeah..."say, what are you doing back there, pal?"
"Hey, you keep your eyes on the road, buddy...AND HURRY~!"
Its seems Ken B. is acting just like Aldie banning comments. Did you find my praise of BGG offensive Ken?
When I forced you to take a lot at the difference between your site and BGG?
Let's face it ken this site just cannot compete.
You missed an important point...we aren't "competing" with them.
Do we have a database? Nope. What's the point? There's already a great one out there. I'm a DBA myself so I really respect just what a monster the BGG database is. It's incredible.
Personally, I really like BGG, from that perspective. I really do. I track my entire collection there, log plays, add items that are wanted, do all sorts of trades...
This is a blog focused on a niche aspect of a niche hobby. Is this difficult to understand somehow?
"This is a blog focused on a niche aspect of a niche hobby. Is this difficult to understand somehow? "
The fact is all you got here is about a dozen guys with underdeveloped social skills who don't know how to behave on a website. This site is the detention hall of BGG!
"Its seems Ken B. is acting just like Aldie banning comments. Did you find my praise of BGG offensive Ken?"
Is this true Ken? As much as I hate to side with this jerk I must protect his right to say what he wants. If you deleted his comment, I'm done here.
I can't understand why "adult" and "grown-up" are apparently two different things.
-Jeff
Yeah, I deleted it. He said what he did to get a rise, and I wanted to avoid that. His purpose was to push buttons to get that response to "prove his point."
Had he put his name to it, I wouldn't have done it. You want to say some outlandish shit, sign your name on the dotted line. You want to hide behind an anonymous alias, I don't feel required to show the same courtesy.
If that causes you to leave us Steve-O, I'm sorry.
I can understand that but if you decide to allow anonymous posts on your Blog you must take the good with the bad and not cherry pick.
Nothing personal but I have to take a stand here.
Good luck guys!
Believe me, it wasn't my idea to allow Anonymous posts in the first place.
I want to see what Anonymous said...I firmly believe that it makes a stronger statement to leave bullshit, nonsensical comments up than it does to take them off. I don't believe we should have any restriction on any kind of comment- I don't care if it's racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-relgious or pro-BGG. Even if someone wants to post under the "Anonymous" tag and pretty much single themselves out as being a fucking wank afraid to stand by what they say then let them.
My mistake. I should've left it. I've made my thoughts on anonymous posting quite clear.
When this site is about boardgames, it's a great read. When this site is about "BGG is mean and stupid but we better keep bringing it up to show how lame it is" it's pointless drivel.
I agree, Scott. This is the last time I will bring such stuff up here. Skeletor sent the avatar to the mailbag asking to be posted for the pic of the week, so some context was in order.
I'm done talking about BGG, at least in the light you're talking about.
Disgusting, and deserved to be banned. If this is what your group is about you should feel real embarrased. I thought that you guys were representing games that you thought were under represented on BGG but instead it feels like a juvenile teenage rebellion.
There hasn't been mention of BGG on here in a long time until Frank's banning. I think most of us regard BGG as an irrelevant subject any more, but it's impossible to ignore when something like this goes down. Like it, love it, or hate it BGG is part of the hobby (too much of a part, in my opinion) and invariably it's going to come up from time to time.
But hey, I agree, I'd much rather talk board games or get a Mr. Skeletor enema than sit around and bitch about BGG all day.
I still remember the thread announcing that maximum avatar size was now 100kByte. One user asked for help to downsize his avatar, which showed a cartoon-human hammering his whole body to bloody bits on the keyboard while sitting in front of a computer.
Passive aggressive marginalization of BGG? That's it? Sheesh, hasn't it been months?
avatar causes ban - no surprise.
anonymous post deletion - wrong (hypocritical).
storm. teacup. next!
overall result - BGG opinion of F:AT plummets.
worth it?
Probably not.
I happened to catch a glimpse of this avatar the other day. I laughed and thought "Well, I wonder how long THAT will stay up."
I'm surprised it was caught that quickly as Frank isn't an active poster anymore.
Why doesn't F:AT get rid of Anon? Posting Anon is a chickenshit thing to do. If people want to hide, make them go to the trouble of having a duplicate account...
That said, I find it disturbing Skeletor has no legs. Seriously. Where are his legs?!
I can't believe no one has made the obvious Kevin Federline connection here...
Regarding F:AT and how it sucks compared to BGG. I will quote Satan from Paradise Lost "At least here we are free."
Thaad: posting Anon is a fast thing to do. :P
Since Google ate Blogger I can't log in anymore.
Fuck Ken, thanks for defending me I guess but Jesus you need to take a chill pill man.
Here is the story - like everything I do i actually stole that image. Every so often I do a google image search for a new avatar 'cause I'm far too lazy to make my own. Anyway I found that one, thought it was fucking hilarious in a WTF? sort of manner and tried uploading it here, couldn't figure it out, and then ;cause I'm a cheeky prick thought I'd put it on BGG and see how long it would take to get noticed.
It got picked up and removed pretty much straight away, and that same morning someone claimed that the powers that be over there had a secret BGG 'geekbuddies' list that the members of can't see they are a part of, and all of the FAT crew were on it as well as other 'colorful' members so they could be monitored. So I told them what just happened since it fit with the pretty outlandish claim.
Then I thought it would be funny to send the image in for this segment, and I wrote a message about "punk rock AT" which Ken didn't post for some reason. It seems that while I was asleep all of the juvenile humor left what I did and it became much more of a rant. I'm not sure why because I thought I was quite clear in my 'behind the scenes' email that I thought it was fucking hilarious (being the immature cunt I am.)
That image was always going to be taken off once it got found (though I think some clowns got a bit too overly disgusted in it. It's a toon wobbling behind a statue, burger king blowing away Ronald McDonald is worse.)
If I didn't want to risk getting suspended I wouldn't pull shit like this. I'm not sure I understand why people would think I'd really care about a one month suspension when I've grown so bored of that place I stopped posting there anyway (apart from the occasional trolling comment.) I got suspended, who cares.
I'm spewing Ken deleted that thread, it would have been a great read. Better than the boring shit in the women's forum at any rate.
Feel free to give me geek gold so I can buy a new avatar, since they didn't just remove the picture but the whole thing, meaning I have to rebuy one *sob*.
Sorry to have misread you, Skeletor. The chill pill has been taken.
I think that avatar is hilarious. But since I visit this site while surfing at work, the thrusting motion of the animation is a little too much and has me frantically scrolling down before I get in trouble. Otherwise, it's great.
. . .Better than the boring shit in the women's forum at any rate.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one to notice that the BGG forum has turned into an electronic Lilith Fair lately.
Personally, I think the picture is hilarious. I can understand that it was a bit too much for the refined sensibilities of BGG. I just love that people toss out . . for the children. . .whenever something offends them.
But banning? Ah, once again the Iron Hand of Aldie (or one of his merry band of lickspittle toadies) reaches down to smite the wicked. Sometimes I do feel like F:AT is a bit too anti-BGG, and not enough Pro-AT. And then someone (usually Octavian, Prince of the Prissy) will go and do something that reminds me why there need to be other places to express ourselves.
I still love BGG. As a database, a place to research games and a great trading venue. But, sweet wounded jeebus, does the level of discourse ever suck monkey balls.
I think that picture is hilarious and I would have loved to see it in avatar format. Unfortunately for you Chaddyboy spends all day on BGG and is a devout Christian. You've been Jesused!
I think that avatar is hilarious. But since I visit this site while surfing at work, the thrusting motion of the animation is a little too much and has me frantically scrolling down before I get in trouble. Otherwise, it's great.
Same here, when that came up on my monitor, the "crap, crap, crap, adblock, adblock, adblock!" mantra kicked in and I blocked the image.
I agree with Skeletor about the BK/McDonald avatar. Shit, if you're going to remove offensive avatars, start with that one, like yesterday.
This site is the detention hall of BGG!
That should probably be the forum slogan of this site.
As for why other rather violent avatars get a pass but this one produces a ban, it has to do with Americans' greater tolerate for violence than for sex. I'm not sure why it exists but you'll find it all over, from movies to video games to advertisements. I hear it's the opposite in Europe.
I think that avatar is hilarious. But since I visit this site while surfing at work, the thrusting motion of the animation is a little too much and has me frantically scrolling down before I get in trouble. Otherwise, it's great.
Ha, I actually found it while I was slacking off at work.
Things is the site I pulled it off (you'll find it if you do a "skeletor no" search on google images) actually CRASHES firefox. So I had to pull it and get the fuck out of dodge, meaning I have no idea what the site it comes from is about or what the hell that image is meant to mean. In fact I didn't even realize it was animated 'till I saved it to my desktop.
Therefore I spent much of yesterday staring at it in wonder. Why does skeletor have no legs? Does the wolf's head mean anything? Is that pain or extacy or anger or triumph on his face? Is he really skilled enough to use no hands?
Truly this thing is a work of art.
Hi Chaps - Andy Ravenscroft here- gobbeg on BGG. (Don't have Google login, Anonymous is fastest way to post on your site, but as was noted somwhere here: "You want to say some outlandish shit, sign your name on the dotted line". I don't think my "shit" is particularly outlandish, but I believe in old fashioned values like manners and shit).
I must be getting old since the level of dialogue here sounds like my high school playground or most live stages in London about 1982 (more on that later).
The interesting stuff on the front page is what kept me coming back to F:AT, but the same page took me here to find out why Skeletor thought it was a bit out of order for an animated shagging avatar to be banned from a boardgames discussion site (and, by the way, unless you're about 12 years old, you must have a pretty good idea why).
I must be turning into an old fart (identifying with the Ian Hunter track 'I Am What I Hated When I Was Young' on his current, great, album Shrunken Heads), but if the representative sample of dialogue culled from this list and posted below is indicative of how some of the principals here really think, you must be applying some serious filters before you write the front page stuff.
So here I am feeling like the bloke that Ben Elton goes after in one of his live gigs - the Hampstead prude in the audience who saw Elton’s more commercial work and finally sees him live and says "He's such a clever chap, he's very funny; why does he have to say 'fark'? It's not clever. I can say it. Look; 'fark, fark, fark'." Well, I don’t think of myself as a prude, but to me putting an animated shagging gif avatar onto a mostly vanilla website is like saying “fark! fark! fark!” to a crowd that’s expecting you to do something a bit less sophomoric. And yes, there’s a lot of sophomoric behaviour on BGG, but an avatar like that is like mooning the squares as you drive by the movie theatre. It’s not that funny, and people react the way you thought they would. They’re a bit shocked and some of them are a bit embarrassed for you. You have a good giggle with your mates as you drive off to the next bar, but you don’t prove anything although maybe it’s somehow cathartic for you.
Looking back at a very juvenile adolescence and 20’s in which I thought it was hysterically funny to hear people say ‘fuck’, ‘shit’ and even ‘cunt’ on stage, the likes of Bon Scott, Henry Rollins, Shane MacGowan, Joe Strummer, Joseph Porter, Dick Lucas, Paul Weller, Dennis Leary, Lemmy, hell, even our apparent mutual friend Mark E Smith (street cred, or what? Yeah, right, old man), all people I thought were great, it’s getting a bit boring as I turn into a 40-something old fart. I don't think Lemmy's said 'cunt' in years. At least not on camera. OK, maybe except for that time someone asked him about Dave Brock.
Have I got a point? Sort of. You’ve got a good thing going here with the F:AT discussion about other sorts of games. It’s currently defined mostly by its opposition to The Other Site About Games.
If that’s your only point, and if you can only make it by thumbing your nose (or ass) at the “establishment” you’re going to be about as entertaining and last about as long as the Sex Pistols.
I'd like to see you stick around a bit longer so you can at least justify the reunion tour.
Andy
Here’s the farking language that got me all prudish:
“You bitches grab me a beer”
“Jesus fucking Christ”
“single themselves out as being a fucking wank”
“Fuck Ken,”
"Come the fuck on..."
“I'm a cheeky prick”
“I thought it was fucking hilarious (being the immature cunt I am.)”
"Unfortunately for you Chaddyboy spends all day on BGG and is a devout Christian. You've been Jesused!"
Ha, I didn't even see the avatar until the whole ruckus today. I'm only on the Geek for a bit every day, so I miss a lot of this stuff. Even though I wasn't involved, I certainly agree with the decision for a temporary ban. Like Skeletor said, he wouldn't do this stuff if he wasn't willing to risk the consequences.
Anyways, I understand peoples' need to express themselves, but isn't it possible to express yourself without all the profanity and such that seems so prevalent around these parts? While there's definitely a lot of good content around here at F:AT, I just don't get the need for all the cursing and what not. To each his own I guess.
Ken, I'm also pretty ticked you deleted the BGG thread before I got to read it. Are you becoming the F:AT Aldie or something? "F:AT Aldie" is pronounced like "Fat Albert".
As for the cursing on this site . . . I'm not much of a curser myself but I won't ask YOU to stop just because *I* don't do it. I will say, though, the words you guys use carry much more power and meaning if used sparingly. As it is, you come off as a cheap episode of Deadwood or some inner-city wannabe gang trying to sound street-tough.
Interesting posts about the cursing since it's been going on since day 1 (at least with me anyway.)
I think it's a culture thing - for me this is just how I talk in day to day life. Rus makes the point that "I will say, though, the words you guys use carry much more power and meaning if used sparingly." which is true, but the thing is to me those words aren't really meant to hold much power. When I go to a party and say "Bob ya cunt, havn't seen you in ages. Where you been you slackarse?" he isn't meant to get offended. Seen the movie "The Departed?" Marky Mark and the other cops are pretty representative of how me and my friends are, lots of good natured ball busting and smart arsed comments.
Of course in front of strangers or people I'm not 'comfortable' with I try not to swear. But when I'm relaxed and off guard the profanities fly. Posting on the blog I feel pretty relaxed and amongst friends, which is why I don't sensor myself here.
Maybe when I become more of an old fart I'll stop, but since every second word from my grandfather's mouth is "Cazzo" I wouldn't bet on it.
I think that the statue is of Rhea Silvia, but feel free to correct me if I wrong. I know that I have seen it, but can't remember where. Even without Mr. S, the statue is a bit disturbing, but in that good way that art is supposed to disturb you.
Anyway, if it is Rhea Silvia I know folks who could say all kinds of fancy academic things to defend the photoshopped image as art - a modern re-interpretation of the myth as an anti-war statement, etc.
Mister Skeletor deserved it, in a sense. I think the banning was a way of saying that he knew better. People with a higher profile have higher expections from people in charge. That usually means an understanding of the rules.
I knew it was coming. In fact, considering that Mister Skeletor hasn't posted in ages on BGG, I thought that was intention...I must have been wrong. I don't see any other reason to change your avatar.
Here’s the farking language that got me all prudish:
[bullshit snipped]
Congratulations. Someone taught you how to identify swear words and that it's ever so important to become aggrieved whenever they are used. Is this lesson so valuable that you need to try so hard to teach it to other people?
...you’re going to be about as entertaining and last about as long as the Sex Pistols.
Wait, don't they still play the Sex Pistols on the radio? I mean, I don't know why they do, but still...
Ubarose: the woman is Britney Spears.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/28/ap/entertainment/mainD8GKQIP05.shtml
Whoa, whoa, whoa, I think in all the anger we're losing sight of what's really relevant here: that chick really knows how to take a cock.
Yeah, I realize the cursing is cultural, as well. I grew up in an environment where such things weren't said and if they were . . . it must have meant the apocalypse was upon us.
I guess what I'm saying is, yeah, sometimes, rarely, I curse, too . . . and it means somebody better watch out . . . dog gone it!!
Kudos, Mr. S, on causing a stir without even posting in ages to the old 'geek. Even so, you are missed there. I think you're more admired than you thought, judging from several comments I have seen. Scary, huh?
I think that the statue is of Rhea Silvia
Um, ha ha?
Ubarose: the woman is Britney Spears.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/28/ap/entertainment/mainD8GKQIP05.sht
Holy shit! It's now official! That is the greatest avatar ever!
::shrug::
I grew up in a household where anything beyond "darn" would get you in hot water, but that doesn't bother me at all. My Grandfather sounds a lot more like Frank's in that he can (and usually does) rip off long streams of invective on a regular basis. (If your Grandfather was in WW2, maybe it's a soldier thing.)
That said, yeah, the Avatar is over the top, but that's the intention. I actually thought the shooting of Ronald McDonald and the exploding people far worse, but they stuck around for ages.
BGG needs to sit down and have specific policies spelled out.
--Mike L.
Hey, found a Google account that I didn't remember I had. No longer posting anon.
Congratulations. Someone taught you how to identify swear words and that it's ever so important to become aggrieved whenever they are used.
I'm not aggrieved at all. What I was trying to convey in my [bullshit snipped] was that I find it all a bit juvenile.
Hey, Is this lesson so valuable that you need to try so hard to teach it to other people?
Actually, yes. Since you seem to be having a spot of bother with it perhaps I can save some time and send you a dictionary with all the naughty words highlighted.
Wait, don't they still play the Sex Pistols on the radio?
Not in my part of the world. It's fucking Kansas and Journey all the time.
I think it's a culture thing - for me this is just how I talk in day to day life.
Context is everything I suppose. Be interesting to see you rewrite some Ameritrash rules this way.
"When some fucker invades one of your territories you get to twat the cunt first with your defending armies. Roll two dice per unit. Other players may assist in the defence, but the tossers are more likely to throw you to the wolves. If the gobshite is lucky enough to survive, he gets to shoot back. Cunt."
It'd make Caylus almost bearable. Who knows, maybe somewhere tucked away in the one of the Caylus player aids uploaded to BGG there's already some ripe language just waiting to offend. Be tricky to get that past the admins, I suppose.
"the usual suspects will whine about how terrible BGG is becoming because someone can't use a buttfucking avatar."
That was hilarious.
I'll be honest; I didn't read the whole thread. I just want to get my two cents in:
There are children on BGG. SO? Most parents now take their kids to rated R movies. My own dad had me sitting on the couch with porn on when I was 6. I agree that if enough people complain the picture should be taken down, that is the point in the new ratings system on BGG right? The suspension is a little much. However, for repeat offenders when taking the offending material down doesn't stop the behavior, what are you supposed to do?
(NOTE: I am not say that this refers to this case, I am merely stating it as a discussion point and reasoning behind wanting to temporarily ban a user.)
It's 4 in the morning and I'm quite tipsy and tired so maybe my brain isn't registering what I read right, but:
My own dad had me sitting on the couch with porn on when I was 6.
WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!
I have no idea who you are (April sounds like a chick?) but that's some warped shit man. How did you turn out in your adult life?
I try not to swear in front of kids or anything like that, but lets cut the shit - there are no kids on BGG so it's a moot point.
End Result:
Two anonymice and that tosser Weeks no longer posting ... overall not a bad outcome for one thread.
I'm with Mr S. as well in that the language that some people are offended at (and seem to think they have a right to tell us to stop using it) is used in everyday day life with a particular crowd where it is not used offensively but just conversation - it's only offensive if you intend it to be offensive with it's use.
So if a few more lurkers proclaim to abandon their reading of this blog because people don't behave or speak how they want them to then that must be a victory in the fight against censorship :-)
I'm actually quite interested in the suggestion that there is a secret list on BGG of users who post here - incredulous if it is so, could such paranoia exist ???
Discussion time, here...is such imagery worthy of such a harsh response? Remember, we have avatars of exploding heads, drive-by shotgun blasts, and more...
The banning in light of this is more a comment on the social-mores of the USA / Western society than anything else. Violence & Destruction are good / fun, Implied Sex is bad / not fun.
THANK YOU for that response, y'know, that sort of conversation was what I had in mind when I started this.
Of course, that ship has sailed and this went to hell and a handbasket at warp 9, but I appreciate it all the same.
I try not to swear in front of kids or anything like that, but lets cut the shit - there are no kids on BGG so it's a moot point.
Wanna bet????
Gotta love all these guys who bash BGG because they are ruling with an iron fist and censoring content.... yet ken b. had no problem in promptly censoring (deleting) some anonymous posts. What a bunch of hypocrites. Good luck with your little high school blog here.
BGG is not targeted towards kids. Kids would not know how to navigate the site, nor would they be interested in the content. Nor is even the supplied content (Prison Bitch, Wench, Darkies in the melon patch, etc) child appropriate.
But feel free to tell me what 7 year olds are hanging out at BGG all day.
He-Man said...
Gotta love all these guys who bash BGG because they are ruling with an iron fist and censoring content.... yet ken b. had no problem in promptly censoring (deleting) some anonymous posts. What a bunch of hypocrites. Good luck with your little high school blog here.
You know what. If whomever got their post deleted had any intention other than trolling or being hurtful, and feels that his or her comment was was unjustly deleted, he or she has the option to contact us via the fortress e-mail link and discuss it off-line. It's not like we are going ban anyone. I believe that the reality is that the comment was an anonymous drive-by hit and the person most likely is too ashamed to have his or her name associated with it.
Is BGG really the focus of this site, or is it AT games? I'm starting to forget.
Is BGG really the focus of this site, or is it AT games? I'm starting to forget.
Starting to forget? I doubt you were ever here in the first place.
I don't quite understand the point of the screeching and howling. Proprietor gets to make the rules, be they arbitrary, sane, or reasonable.
Builds character.
Michael. At the last Gathering Prize Table, a guy picked up the copy of Porn Star. Alan stopped the free for all to announce that if a girl had picked it up, he was planning to give her a free lifetime membership. To the Gathering, I suppose. Hopefully.
The avatar is a great laugh and Skelly is just exploring the cultural differences between the US and Australia. Good on him. He is the wiser for it.
We all are. The norm has been reconfirmed and we all have had our say on the issue. We're so fucking empowered!
Now quit this Sunday school discussion: you idiots had better tell me why Kiss is not Ameritrash in a neighbouring thread.
I'm actually quite interested in the suggestion that there is a secret list on BGG of users who post here - incredulous if it is so, could such paranoia exist ???
This wins "Irony of the Week" award.
-MMM
I don't get the Irony.
Are you claiming there is no list of Dodgey users that the users themselves can't see that they are on?
Okay...see there where he is speculating about a list of users that post here? And then see where he asks if such paranoia could really exist?
You see...there is some paranoia at work here, but it ain't coming from the source the author was intending.
That, sir, is irony.
-MMM
In other news...I need to stop going out of town. All the excitement always happens when I'm away.
It's only irony if such a list doesn't exist and we are being paranoid.
Maybe we are. But then I notice your still not denying it and saying the source is full of shit. The more I think about it the more I suspect it probably exists.
Not that I have any objection to it mind you, in fact I thought it was quite a clever idea.
Wow, what a lot of fuss over very little!
I won't add to the debate over the avatar image but I do want to make 2 small points.
1) If anybody wants to bitch about BGG this is the first place they come to do it. I doubt that was the intentions of the creators of this site, but that is what has happened. BUT, anybody who claims that this site is only about that has clearly not read much of the site.
2) I am interested in every persons opinion on a subject that interests me UNLESS they post as 'anonymous' in which case I really don't care what they say. I doubt I'm alone in this.
Holy shit. That's probably the funniest thing I've seen on the internet in weeks :D
Just to specifically address one issue:
There is not a 'watch list'. I promise. If you act like a fool consistently, then we're much more likely to remember you.
Skeletor, you admitted you intended to raise a ruckus, therefore you were justly rewarded. Why would you be surprised by Aldie's reaction? It seems very disingenuous.
I will say that Michael Chapel makes his points with style and panache; if you aren't a complete dick all the time, then we're much more likely to allow your antics.
Derk:
Where was I surprised about the result? And where did I complain about it?
Ken and Malloc seem to be a lot more outraged than I. In fact I've hardly commented on the action at all, so I don't see how I am being disingenuous.
It was meant to be you who had 'the list' by the way, but it's 3rd hand information by the time it got to me so I have no idea how trust worthy the source is. I was surprised about how quickly I got caught.
I will say being a complete dick is better than being a hermaphrodite.
amazing. 107 comments on this thread all basically saying.............what exactly? From this post we have learned:
1. There is a fair bit of swearing done over here.
2. There is very little swearing 'over there'
3. 'Over there' is discussed rarely/occasionally/all the time depending on whether you have actually read most of the posts on this site and what you consider to be bashing BGG to be.
4. Saying 'fuck' is unnacceptable to some, but saying "fucking Kansas and Journey" is ok.
5. Posting anonymously is for wimps. It's funny that the people who say it is faster always go on an on and on. If you have that much time and that much to say...put your name on it. I agree with the above poster who said I disregard all anon's. Remove the option and they will either enter into the debate,or go away; either way is a good thing.
5. Mr. Skeletor is Gordon Ramsay
6. This thread has now become dull, let's all meet on another one and carry on talking about Lemmy eh?
amazing. 107 comments on this thread all basically saying.............what exactly?
That when people claim "We just want to talk about the games, man!" they are really full of shit?
Derk said: I will say that Michael Chapel makes his points with style and panache;
That means to be classy, I'll have to exchange my avatar from "Mr. Skeletor fucking a piece of nauseating crap art (aka Britney Spears giving birth statue)" to "full frontal cartoon baboon".
That Brittney 'giving birth' statue (with a bear rug or bear head to boot) is utter new age kitsch and deserves to be ridiculed. I'm not suprised Skelly got banned from BGG of course but it's hard to take the image seriously.
As for me making the ruckus I did over it--I totally misunderstood the situation. I thought Skeletor was angry about the banning, I was taking up for him. But, as I said, the whole thing was to discuss the boundaries of sex versus violence. Read the actual blog post itself (I have not edited it since I posted it)--it's pretty clear I wasn't angry then, and the question leading into the comments section was specifically about sexual versus violent content.
Remember, I'm PhD of Ameritrash Studies. I intended the conversation to be intellectual. But I also labored (heh, see what I did there?) under the belief that Skeletor was upset about what had happened.
I wanted to get more input from BGG users since the discussion was appropos in the context of that site, so I started a thread on it. I said, "Hey, believe it or not, Skeletor got banned if you were looking for him, and it was due to an avatar. Find out more at another site."
I didn't deliberately link to our site because I didn't want that action to itself be a banning offense. I wasn't being coy, merely careful.
Within minutes of posting the thread Skeletor himself was attacked by posters as being worthless, as having deserved it, and worst of all, that maybe we had staged this to promote our site. To avoid the appearance of impropriety, I promptly deleted the BGG thread, not to censor, but to avoid the ugliness on there that had already started AND to not make us look bad for trying to stage the whole thing.
Believe me, if we staged it we would've been a LOT better organized about it.
Anonymous content--if you'll read this very thread, you'll see a ton of anon comments. I didn't delete any of those, did I? No, eventually the person posting those kept trying until he found my button, and I reacted poorly.
I would say that "I won't let it happen again," but if someone tries to use anonymous contents to cripple our blog, I cannot promise you that I won't delete them.
This isn't freedom of speech, by the way. On BGG, if you make a statement, you PUT YOUR NAME TO IT. You have to; you can't help it. I don't agree, then, with having content from identifiable users deleted, UNLESS it is intentionally disruptive and bears no other merit.
Here, any jackass can do a quick anon post with absolute garbage trying to harm our blog. If we value the conversation that ensues from each of our posts, then we'd be crazy not to.
In short, if you sign your name on the line, I will value your content, for good or ill. But if you anonymously post junk with the sole intent of trolling or trying to get a rise out of us, I don't feel obligated to "protect" your content.
However, I've talked it over with Michael and he believes it's better to let fools look like fools, and to let anonymous content stand. So we'll see how that goes.
That DOES NOT MEAN if you post criticism anonymously that I will delete it, heck, like I said, look at some of the anon comments in this VERY THREAD to see that this is not the case. In fact, I value criticism most of all; it's how we get better. If you come at us with criticism but do so from an honest place, I absolutely welcome anything you have to add.
So...hopefully, that's that. I'm sorry for being a hothead on Friday. I'm sorry to have appeared "hypocritical" (but remember...the whole "super freedom of speech" thing was Steve Weeks ideal, not mine).
The blog format doesn't really allow for it, but when you move to a website have a policy statement. Do NOT let it appear ad hoc with readers trying to deduce what's acceptable by your actions. Even if it's a simple bullet list of do's and don'ts - actually that might be a good way of doing it, more likely to be read - have something obvious from the very start.
You can cover language (do's: fuck, jackass; don'ts: wither, meeple), topics (do's: dice, reviews; don'ts: social contracts, games for girls/boys/cats), etc, etc.
I like your thinking, Adrian. I think we take for granted that people know some of that stuff. Great idea.
True, we think it's 'merely' common sense and courtesy, but different people draw the line in different places and styles differ. F:AT and BGG have adequately demonstrated all the aggravation that can be caused. Something up front and visible means F:AT gets to play the 'we told you so' card - you knew, you posted regardless, we deleted, end of.
many people seem to think that being an admin is easy. My experience (as a user, mostly) is that it is in fact pretty hard. I think it involves a number of skills apart from social skills.
While handbooks focus on the technical side of hosting a website/forum/blog, more attention could be paid to the social: moderating, house rules, banning etc.
I don't know if anyone is reading this thread anymore, but I wanted to jump in.
Ken b.....I am 100% on your side. I'm a huge BGG fan. I am also a fan of this site. I see no problem of you deleting posts. I never saw F:AT as a free speech thing. This is another game site with different admins. You might be more tolerant, but you still have to draw the line somewhere. So bravo to you for doing what you had to.
Steve Weeks left here? So...where exactly CAN he post now? And who the hell cares. Is he even doing his podcasts anymore, cause I haven't seen posts on BGG about them? Good riddance anyway. As I said, I don't recall F:AT being the free speech network.
I missed what happened on BGG, so I am reading about it here. Frank was SUSPENDED for 1 month. Good. I like your stuff Mr. S, but I'm with Aldie on this one.
That said though, I am with the others who are talking about the violent avatars. If you get yours taken away, then the Burger King and Ronald for SURE should be gone.
As well as the new one I've seen, that is a guy repeatedly walking through a door shooting himself in the head. That is just way messed up.
If Frank is suspended for his, so should the others. They are all bad form.
Done with my useless dribble. Really I just wanted to show some support for Ken. He has built a very good thing here, and I don't take this kind of thing as a reflection of ALL of F:AT.
Keep the good articles coming!
Hugh--I'm still checking in. Thanks for the kind words.
Though I have to correct you--I am not alone in building F:AT, and if we've got a good thing here I have my co-contributers to thank for that.
That image is hilarious, full stop.
This site rocks, I read it all the time. Too much of the "discourse" on BGG descends into hair-splitting, post-parsing contests to see who can catch who in a logical fallacy, or condescendingly point out that someone has read your post wrong--"read what I wrote, not what you wanted me to have written"--UGH. I'll take discussion of dicefests and explosions and how there should be games with Amazon biker chick themes any day.
Now can we get back to some Professor Euro face-melting pics? Those make me giggle.
Wow - that was pretty funny but not surprising that it needed removal. However I'm totally inline with the violence versus sex argument. It is somehow Ok to have peoples heads getting smashed to bits or blown off but someone having a good go at it is loathsome? What the fuck is wrong with our society if a good 'ol buttfuck is reprehensible yet two clowns directly marketed towards kids can be seen to be no more cultured than street thugs is somehow Ok?
BGG has clearly dropped the ball on this and are definitely looking selective in their censorship - fools.
I agree with taking the avatar down with a warning - just because of the kid potential, but then what's with the violence?
Even funier is Octavian and Derk coming over to "na na na boo boo".
Yes there are kids on BGG - my 11 year old is there. However if he did see Mr Skeletor's buttfucking avatar he'd only be embarrassed and maybe amused, not permanently damaged.
I'd just like to add:
Aldie is IN YOUR BASE, KILLIN' YOUR DUDES!
Is it unexpected that gamers who like conflict in their games like conflict on their web sites?
BGG has become a much more enjoyable place over the last two months. It's more about the games than the personalities as it should be.
Friendless--glad you're still checking us out from time to time, I thought you gave up on us.
As for the conflict, believe it or not that was never my intention.
But this thread generated more comments than any we've ever done...conflict = ratings?
I think it's very telling that it's automatically assumed that Mr. Skeletor's avatar is engaging in anal intercourse...what does it tell?
Either A) Mr. Skeletor, by his very nature "does it like that" or B)some stuck-up folks haven't realized (or experienced) that there's more than one sexual position. It has to be a combination of the two.
I was actually wondering the same thing Barnes. Don't you Americans have doggy style over there?
Of course, looking at how some of the supposedly married men are acting on the 'wimins' forum, I'm hardly surprised.
Glad you're enjoying the "new" BGG beef, cause personally I have never before seen a community slide into such mediocrity in such a short time. It's good someone out there is enjoying it's new wholesome bordom.
From Michael Barnes some posts above:
"I think the avatar is a lot less embarassing to the hobby and less disgusting than the sort of bullshit most of the posters on BGG put up there."
That's the usual stuff posted at BGG by Mr. Barnes and Mr. Skeletor. And they wonder they get banned! You already said it all.
Mr. Skeletor tried hard at being offensive many times and it's no wonder he was banned!
michael barnes: Or C) they think that because she's pregnant the entrance is blocked.
mr skeletor: "...looking at how some of the supposedly married men are acting on the 'wimins' forum". I want to ask because life's too short to go and read through it all myself. On the other hand, do I really want to know?
It has to be from behind - doesn't matter which one exactly, as long as I have somewhere to place my ashtray and beer can.
Skeletor said: "Glad you're enjoying the "new" BGG beef, cause personally I have never before seen a community slide into such mediocrity in such a short time. It's good someone out there is enjoying it's new wholesome bordom."
I don't consider talking about boardgames boring at all. On the other hand, dealing with spoiled brats with a 3rd grader mentality *is* quite boring and eventually exasperating, but luckily there seems to be less of that type lately.
So boring that, accordingly, you had to go out looking for it.
That's the usual stuff posted at BGG by Mr. Barnes and Mr. Skeletor. And they wonder they get banned! You already said it all.
Mr. Skeletor tried hard at being offensive many times and it's no wonder he was banned!
I was suspended, not banned. Wait 'till you see the scheme I have cooked up to mark my return.
I don't consider talking about boardgames boring at all. On the other hand, dealing with spoiled brats with a 3rd grader mentality *is* quite boring and eventually exasperating, but luckily there seems to be less of that type lately.
Spoken like a true dork. So remind me why you are here again captain maturity?
I can't believe I am participating in the most asinine conversation I've ever been party to outside of a frat house.
It's not A, B or C.
It's either that they have a very limited knowledge of female anatomy, or they believe that Mr. Skeletor has weird, anime, tentacle genitalia.
Mr. Skeletor has weird, anime, tentacle genitalia.
Another Fortress: Ameritrash exclusive--you heard it here first!
Someone has been watching my home movies.
My vote goes for both possibilities suggested by ubarose. I note the use of the plural genitalia - just how many do you have mr s? Could it be you're doing A), B), and C) simultaneously?
(Sorry, couldn't resist getting even more surreal and silly!)
adrianbolt said...
I note the use of the plural genitalia - just how many do you have mr s? Could it be you're doing A), B), and C) simultaneously?
(Sorry, couldn't resist getting even more surreal and silly!)
I confess that I wasn't sure if the plural or the singular was correct. I have observed that characters usually have multiple tentacles. If a character has more than one tentacle, it is still a single personal bit, or is it multiple personal bits?
I have no idea which is correct either!
So I did my usual and went for the weirdest or most amusing option.
Maybe mr skeletor is octopenile?
Something happened on BGG recently?
The string "BGG" has been found 92 times in this thread.
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