tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post4209765078807712966..comments2023-11-03T02:44:56.790-07:00Comments on Fortress: Ameritrash: Putting the brakes on the AOE 3 BandwagonMatt Throwerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04426055092986158446noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-48974964472528251472011-05-16T02:47:17.366-07:002011-05-16T02:47:17.366-07:00HI,
That is great news. Thanks for sharing this in...HI,<br />That is great news. Thanks for sharing this information.. Really very interesting..buy zenegrahttp://www.raymeds.com/purchase/zenegra.aspxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-91930469003355932272007-08-23T16:17:00.000-07:002007-08-23T16:17:00.000-07:00Michael,But I also think YOU are careful in the wo...Michael,<BR/><BR/>But I also think YOU are careful in the words you use... in your reviews, at least. I call it "polish". You espouse bold views certainly... but at the same time the structured care in your writings comes off as very professional, eloquent and highly readable. Greg and Rick may be less bold in their assertions of a game... but all three of you exhibit the same level of "polish" in your articles. <BR/><BR/>And I think Ubarose put it even better than I did... she had the perfect examples that illustrated the "polish" in the writing but with differing styles. Each example can be useful.<BR/><BR/>Ultimately, when you are a columnist writing articles, you almost always have to carefully choose your words. And that's a good thing. It turns a *strong* viewpoint into the effective articulation of that viewpoint... so you can share with others to read. <BR/><BR/>You, Greg and Rick are more similar than you may think. You are a tremendous writing talent. My recommendation to you is to keep doing what you do so well... and don't allow your very real talent to be dragged down by these people who come out of the woodwork simply to *engage* you... for something you KNOW is probably pointless and meaningless. Respect your gifts... you have a great gift of words. <BR/><BR/>RBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-9672275127396247462007-08-23T11:57:00.000-07:002007-08-23T11:57:00.000-07:00Ryan B. you make a good point. I think that Michae...Ryan B. you make a good point. I think that Michael writes more in the style of theatre critics which tends towards the brutal. Having spend all but the last 5 years of my adult life working in professional theatre, it is a brutality that I have come to appreciate and expect. <BR/><I>Do not go to this movie even if you are given free tickets. If you were unlucky enough to win tickets, burn them immediately.</I> (actual review of movie I had the misfortune to work on).<BR/><BR/>I have no bone to pick with regard to Rick or Greg's style. It is just more in the style of the local paper's restaurant reviewers, who are tactful (careful) and usually find something positive to say, even if they didn't personally care for the food.<BR/><I>The entree was a bit pedestrian, but the service was professional and the restrooms were clean.</I>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01990801735325411116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-41987688476319397492007-08-23T08:08:00.000-07:002007-08-23T08:08:00.000-07:00Well, thanks Ryan...good on you to point out that ...Well, thanks Ryan...good on you to point out that Rick, Greg, and I have different _styles_. That's something that I think is very important in a larger sense, that there are different ways of approaching "board game crit" so to speak and frankly speaking, I think far too much of it is based on the models established by a handful of people.<BR/><BR/>It's funny that you characterize them as "careful"...I think part of why I come down so hard on those guys is because they _are_ too careful, everything I read from them feels like they've got something to lose if they say the wrong thing.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, thanks for dropping by and thanks for the kind comments...new column up today!Michael Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01465993224831900150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-50493634201478894472007-08-22T18:46:00.000-07:002007-08-22T18:46:00.000-07:00Michael,I write for Boardgamenews.com And quite ...Michael,<BR/><BR/>I write for Boardgamenews.com And quite frankly, on one level, I wish you did too. <BR/><BR/>You write GREAT stuff and I thought your article on AOEIII had great flow and made a lot of sense. <BR/><BR/>I think, in your articles anyway, that your words are carefully chosen. Bold... but carefully chosen. <BR/><BR/>Obviously, I know Rick and Greg fairly well... and in my opinion, there is much similarity in your writing styles and the honesty in the opinions you give. I would say that both Rick and Greg are slightly more careful and less bold with their opinions. They do give honest answers, however.<BR/><BR/>There are other writers that may be a bit more fluff. But my focus is to point out that both you, Greg and Rick are ALL terrific writers... and objective game reviewers. In fact, I would say you have built a following and readership base precisely because of this.<BR/><BR/>I enjoyed your article very much. I definitely have similar opinions about most Euros. Keep writing good stuff.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/><BR/>Ryan B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-66539551314082822292007-08-21T01:00:00.000-07:002007-08-21T01:00:00.000-07:00Another Great Article! I still like AOE3 though.Another Great Article! I still like AOE3 though.pwn3dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14019901202297902431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-64011924680436076042007-08-20T08:24:00.000-07:002007-08-20T08:24:00.000-07:00Sorry to hijack the thread but this news is too im...Sorry to hijack the thread but this news is too important!<BR/><BR/>Dune and Cosmic Encounter geeting reprinted by FFG!<BR/><BR/>http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/23938ironcateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13976645472552078821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-86833261272966769932007-08-20T07:26:00.000-07:002007-08-20T07:26:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01990801735325411116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-70441797230249438102007-08-20T07:15:00.000-07:002007-08-20T07:15:00.000-07:00NeonPeon said... Too bad Doom: The Boardgame isn't...<I>NeonPeon said... <BR/>Too bad Doom: The Boardgame isn't about out-trading demons. :(</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>LOL. A demon trade and negotiation game. Players cultivate sinners and then ship the damned? A game where you get points for impressing Satan? Role selection - "I choose the succubus"? Resource management to develop and build instruments of eternal torture?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01990801735325411116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-40523796322425481872007-08-20T00:54:00.000-07:002007-08-20T00:54:00.000-07:00john--I think your first above was quite accurate....john--I think your first above was quite accurate. The article is pitched toward the audience being written to. I'm not sure how many Euro players are avid video gamers and computer gamers but I'd wager to say many of the most vocal ones are not. Which is a problem when you're reading a review tailored toward that crowd. Barnes, from what I've read, actually knows his video gaming and I think this review, though not his strongest IMHO definitely succeeds on that level.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-49113788605381156352007-08-19T09:59:00.000-07:002007-08-19T09:59:00.000-07:00Too bad Doom: The Boardgame isn't about out-tradin...Too bad Doom: The Boardgame isn't about out-trading demons. :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-38260778762800665132007-08-19T07:08:00.000-07:002007-08-19T07:08:00.000-07:00Rliyen, JackNote Michael is not the only one 'miss...Rliyen, Jack<BR/><BR/>Note Michael is not the only one 'missing' on the site ... I have had a whisper that there is a raging meeting of the F:AT High Table right at this moment discussing the fate of three stooopid attendees of this site.<BR/>Eternal banishment was heard as well as the words tar, polaroid, feathers, and rooster (but the order could not be confirmed)<BR/><BR/>I'm off to check out lastminute.com for an extended holiday ....Southernmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03254183843277088157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-29820092286404293742007-08-19T06:40:00.000-07:002007-08-19T06:40:00.000-07:00@ the red phantomAlso, I forgot the main point. OK...<B>@ the red phantom</B><BR/>Also, I forgot the main point. OK, so you don't like <I>Doom: the Boardgame</I>? Fair enough. But can you at least agree that it is a credible translation of an FPS computer game into a boardgame format?<BR/>Y'see, the gist of Michael's review of AoEIII is surely that it <B>fails</B> to bring the key feature- ie. the military conflict- of the RTS into the boardgame. I have seen neither the computer game nor the boardgame, but I believe Michael's assessment to be credible based on the evidence he presented plus some poking around the AoEIII computer game website. Like I said: a good review.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>John ;)"A bit political on yer ass!"https://www.blogger.com/profile/14159828235164365125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-24212674845010463212007-08-19T06:31:00.000-07:002007-08-19T06:31:00.000-07:00@ the red phantomBefore or after the expansion? Go...<B>@ the red phantom</B><BR/><BR/>Before or after the expansion? Good point. One of our early games was a basic set scenario with all the expansion invaders. We haven't repeated that experience because we decided that it just didn't work (we got the impression that this opinion was widely shared). Since then we have played a campaign using the basic scenarios straight out of the box. That's what we're enjoying, and there's plenty more there for us to enjoy.<BR/><BR/>Will we still be enjoying <I>Doom: the Boardgame</I> when we move up to the expansion set? It seems that you don't think so. Time will tell I guess. I certainly hope we at least get far enough into the game to find out.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>John ;)"A bit political on yer ass!"https://www.blogger.com/profile/14159828235164365125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-767126100789665302007-08-19T05:59:00.000-07:002007-08-19T05:59:00.000-07:00jmcl63:Ummmmmmmm....Doom the boardgame was good? ...jmcl63:<BR/><BR/>Ummmmmmmm....Doom the boardgame was good? Before or after the expansion? How soon we forget!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-80364862739206172362007-08-19T05:54:00.000-07:002007-08-19T05:54:00.000-07:00Hmm. My first reaction to Michael's latest column ...Hmm. My first reaction to Michael's latest column was that I didn't like it as much as the previous two. This was for the reason that I too don't like his Euro-bashing agenda. I don't carry a flag for Eurogames in particular. It's just that same old feeling I get when people start having a go at each other on the internet. There might be good reason for being snarky, as Matt Thrower argued in his recent <A HREF="http://fortressameritrash.blogspot.com/2007/08/against-euro.html" REL="nofollow">'Biting Back'</A>. And the snarks might be cogent and articulate. But it can sound all too much like upmarket trolling in the end.<BR/><BR/>Then I read the comments which I too thought were an interesting discussion of the review and the issues it raised- about the game and the wider debate around the F:AT editorial line. This prompted me to reread the article. It's a good review, which strikes me as making exactly the sort of points which <B>should</B> be made to fans of a computer game who might be attracted to trying out a boardgame version of one of their favourite RTS.<BR/><BR/>For me the most damning example of this is:<BR/><BR/><I>it's very difficult to mount any kind of military campaign that will provide a good return on investment</I>.<BR/><BR/>It's always possible that Michael is simply wrong here, that he and his players just failed to see how to do things properly. But if the AoEIII boardgame <B>is</B> supposed to be about military conflict, you'd expect that to flow neatly through the design, so that the economic systems supported the military systems, wouldn't you? In other words, it's hard to believe that Michael <B>is</B> wrong about the game's putting military conflict in the background. Unless, I guess, you're so convinced he's a jackass that reading his words prompts you to the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting 'La, la, la!'.<BR/><BR/>And that's really the point, isn't it? AoEIII is an RTS whose website tells us about the joys which await players in terms of the huge armies they can command, as well as destructible terrain- with each "<I>generation effect... done on the fly so that each building always has a unique destruction</I>"(!). This makes me think that most potential crossover customers for the boardgame would be expecting something like <I>Risk</I> on steriods. According to Michael what has been delivered instead is an anemic version of <I>Diplomacy</I> meets various Euros. I know which I'd prefer.<BR/><BR/>The sad fact is that it's not impossible to deliver a satisfying boardgame version of a computer game. FFG did this with <I>Doom: the Boardgame</I>. Michael's review of AoEIII makes it hard to believe that Tropical Games have succeeded in doing the same, even if they have produced a game which will appeal to some people.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>John ;)"A bit political on yer ass!"https://www.blogger.com/profile/14159828235164365125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-12983182374522924912007-08-19T03:31:00.000-07:002007-08-19T03:31:00.000-07:00So euro overlord fails to make any impact on Micha...So euro overlord fails to make any impact on Michael in the slightest, yet three Munchkin players 'fessing up has led to his demise? Quick, send Jenny the Farmer's Daughter round to give him the kiss of life!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-57721756480657587372007-08-19T02:12:00.000-07:002007-08-19T02:12:00.000-07:00Can someone dial 999 (or whatever it is over the p...Can someone dial 999 (or whatever it is over the pond) and get them around to Michael's place in a hurry .... the lack of a post from him in the last 12 hrs makes me worried he as had an aneurism sitting at the screen reading all this !Southernmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03254183843277088157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-73740988602523290572007-08-18T17:45:00.000-07:002007-08-18T17:45:00.000-07:00Trashed the email awhile back. Sorry. I must admit...Trashed the email awhile back. Sorry. <BR/><BR/>I must admit...that I kind of like Munchkin as well. Played with 3 people, and never, ever more than four, it is a cute, little 30-45 minute game. The charm of it is that:<BR/><BR/>A: The moment you turn are turning up your monster card to see what evil the game is about to heap on you is a nice bit of drama. <BR/><BR/>B: Instead of being a basic "take that" card game, like the abominable Chez Geek, you actually get to try and haggle and plead with people to help you. <BR/><BR/>C: It has a Gelatinous Cube. More games need Gelatinous Cubes. Descent might be a decent game if it had Gelatinous Cubes. <BR/><BR/>(User spies a tin of clear casting resin.)<BR/>Hold that thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-57565449495727599322007-08-18T13:26:00.000-07:002007-08-18T13:26:00.000-07:00I'd like to report a case of identity theft.I'd like to report a case of identity theft.Southernmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03254183843277088157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-41739222230037186502007-08-18T11:07:00.000-07:002007-08-18T11:07:00.000-07:00adrianbolt said...There's a couple of typos in the...<I>adrianbolt said...<BR/>There's a couple of typos in the last two posts, you guys meant to say you like Munchin' didn't you?</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Start the intervention now. No, I actually <I>like</I> MUNCHKIN!!!! =o)Rliyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08644720690880433211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-900654403866327612007-08-18T10:16:00.000-07:002007-08-18T10:16:00.000-07:00There's a couple of typos in the last two posts, y...There's a couple of typos in the last two posts, you guys meant to say you like Munchin' didn't you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-39441755264901330992007-08-18T07:20:00.000-07:002007-08-18T07:20:00.000-07:00[whispers with lights off] I like Munchkin[whispers with lights off] I like MunchkinSouthernmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03254183843277088157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-86428179945345119292007-08-18T05:48:00.000-07:002007-08-18T05:48:00.000-07:00I've no intention of buying AOE3 because a boardga...<I>I've no intention of buying AOE3 because a boardgame adaption of a computer game strikes me as being as much fun as a book of the film of the book. I read the review because it would be interesting. It seems bizarre to switch the emphasis of the game from combat to trade; because of peoples expectations from the computer game, they'll end up being disappointed. How can an honest reviewer NOT point this out?</I><BR/><BR/>That's exactly why this game fails in my book. People who have experience with playing Euro type games will think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. However, neophytes to boardgames other than Monopoly will probably think (and quite erroneously) that the game will play (somewhat) like the PC game. Fact is, it hardly does it at all.<BR/><BR/>They overemphasized other non-combat traits of the PC game and totally downgraded the near primary trait, that is to say, open conflict. If WH40k: Dawn of War was made into a boardgame in this similar vein, I would be highly disappointed and irritated to say the least.<BR/><BR/>Like it or not, conflict is the primary factor in the AOE III PC game, go to Gameshark or any other PC/Video game site and they'll tell you the same thing. To take it out and replace it with a watered down combat system is like replacing a Jaguar's engine with a lawnmower's. The game may look nice, but it's not going anywhere.<BR/><BR/>I don't totally agree with Barnes on a lot of games (I actually like Munchkin. There, I said it!), but this one I felt he did an honest review. He's telling the prospective player what they're in for and explaining that conflict is not the primary focus of the game. If the player doesn't want conflict, fine, they'll know. But, as I said before, if Joe Gamer wants the experience of the PC game without booting up his PC, they will be in for a shock.<BR/><BR/>That's all he's saying. Truth in advertising, and all that.Rliyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08644720690880433211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811769968708731746.post-78334634961572131952007-08-18T04:31:00.000-07:002007-08-18T04:31:00.000-07:00Recontextualizing my ass.Fuck me, the world's abou...<B>Recontextualizing my ass.</B><BR/>Fuck me, the world's about to end! Michael unexpectedly made a negative comment in a review! Better hang the bastard quick!! And he said "some of this hobby is unmitigated crap". Shhh!!! You're not allowed to say that, don't you know there's a conspiracy of silence?<BR/><BR/>I've no intention of buying AOE3 because a boardgame adaption of a computer game strikes me as being as much fun as a book of the film of the book. I read the review because it would be interesting. It seems bizarre to switch the emphasis of the game from combat to trade; because of peoples expectations from the computer game, they'll end up being disappointed. How can an honest reviewer NOT point this out?<BR/><BR/>As ubarose said, the editor picks a reviewer that complements the website; the reader picks a reviewer they can relate too. It doesn't matter whether they like the same games or the opposite. The key is understanding the reviewer, which means reading them a lot. Then you can evaluate their tastes in relation to yours and make the buy/don't buy decision. You can love or hate Michaels' style but you WILL get an informed opinion on which you can confidently decide if a game is right for you. What more can you want from a review?<BR/><BR/>Could jack hill please publish the email that was "pompous and kept us laughing for days" with all the identifying information removed.<BR/><BR/>And please tell me fellonmyhead was joking when he said "AoE must be good because I own a copy". He also owns . . . Monopoly. (Sorry, couldn't resist outing you!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com